What do you guys think of Hamerhead Rifled Barrels?

[Drizit]

So you did in fact fail to isolate variables? Unless your telling me that was consistent paint.

no it was not the most consistant paint I have ever shot, however when you put 1/2 a hopper through one and 1/2 a hopper through the other.... chances are it kinda balances out don't you think?

[Troen]

Meh, just another pipe.

Save your money and get a Custom Products One Piece

qft

[SR_matt]

well also from when ive used it the barrel shoots diferantly than other barrels some what, i dont really know how to explain it but it does.

-matt

[jsdatjsd]

pretty sure if you wouldve read toms tech tips in the llink above it says he made on for the army and it was more accurate.

Oh, yeah, and they wouldn't be any more expensive. I would guess that there are more encapsulation machines making oblong objects than there are making round ones. Ever seen a round gel pill? Nope, they are all oblong.

And yes, its the same technology.

And yes, they use the same exact machines.

And yes, pharmecutical companies buy the same exact models as the paintball ammo manufacturers.

THey just use different "plattens" and "dies".

You just swap out the rollers, which are mirroed and synchornized, and put different goop in the dispenser.

The only price difference would be, does an oblong ball use more material than a round one? If they were /68 caliber, sure. But probably not if they were only .50, or .45, or smaller.

That isn't to say that making paintballs doesn't have its own quirks when using the encapsualtion process, but all you are really doing is changing roller dies....

Check one out, made in china:

http://trustar.en.alibaba.com/product/50136132/50626857/Capsule_Filling_Machines/Soft_Gel_Encapsulation_Machine.html

[Drizit]

Oh, yeah, and they wouldn't be any more expensive. I would guess that there are more encapsulation machines making oblong objects than there are making round ones. Ever seen a round gel pill? Nope, they are all oblong.

And yes, its the same technology.

And yes, they use the same exact machines.

And yes, pharmecutical companies buy the same exact models as the paintball ammo manufacturers.

THey just use different "plattens" and "dies".

You just swap out the rollers, which are mirroed and synchornized, and put different goop in the dispenser.

The only price difference would be, does an oblong ball use more material than a round one? If they were /68 caliber, sure. But probably not if they were only .50, or .45, or smaller.

That isn't to say that making paintballs doesn't have its own quirks when using the encapsualtion process, but all you are really doing is changing roller dies....

Check one out, made in china:

http://trustar.en.alibaba.com/produc...n_Machine.html

The issue with oblong paintballs is loading them, you couldn't dump 150 in your hopper and expect them not to jam like crazy, you could however use a clip system to feed them same as bullets.... hmmm thinking C-Mag

[FinchMan]

you might be able to make a hopper that would sort out the rounds, though it definitely wouldn't feed fast. you would need a special bolt mechanism though.

*edit* Oops.... necro-post , I followed the link from this newer post: http://automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=209120

[bryceeden]

I've sold a hammerhead or two and tested them as well, they are an OK barrel they do work pretty well, however for the price you'd be better off with the Redz Pepperstick, Powerlyte Septer, or Empire Revolver as they are cheaper and just as good or in my opinion better than the Hammerhead. The rifleing does literally nothing in any of the rifeld barrels out there(Armson, Hammerhead, Empire, Spyder, or any of the others I've tested them all alot) Rifleing has no effect on the ball however some of them like the Hammerhead are a good quality barrel and are pretty accurate but like I said save your money and get the Redz or Empire they're better and cheaper. Plus for the side by side with a freak test, frankly while better than most single barrels the freak when compared to other kits is definatly rather low on the performence spectrum.

[bryceeden]

Without even getting into a paintball rifling discussion (It doesn't help!)... I think it's hilarious that the "rifled" portion of a two-piece Hammerhead has a larger internal diameter than the control bore - which I don't ever see anybody mentioning. How the heck is that supposed to work?

That is an amazingly good point.

Hammerhead does have a pretty cool way edited promo video to try to make thier product look way better than it really is, most people are disapointed when they can't hit a quarter from 120' with it.

Here is the link http://www.hammerheadpaintball.com/gallery.html

edit:they took down the way hyped video, but it could probably be found somewhere. I use to have like 100DVDs of it they sent me when I set up my dealer account with them I'll have to try to find.

[Shane-O-Mac]

Variables, variables..................

Barrel A may be slightly nose heavy and helps stabilize the kick of the gun, hence you shoot more consistantly.

Barrel A has a better fit to the size of the paintball. The ball sizer tihng is bogus also. insert A may be .002 off versus insert B, and both could be +/- of the ball sizer. A on the + side B on the - side, so they could be as much as .005 difference. This is NORMAL for any machined product.

Barrel A may have its threads machined slightly off center, so the barrel isnt 100% true to the gun, I could go on and on about possible variables.

Yes it may SEEM to be better, but it really isnt. The placebo effect does apply here. I have bought a new gun/barrel/air system, and was POSITIVE it was better, until I really tested it, and realized that it wasnt any different. Was the barrel length the same? Velocity the same (actually tested)? I shoot a 14" barrel better than a 12", some people are the opposite. If you beleive its better, then fine it is for you, but dont try and convince others that it truely shoots better. Do the proper testing before making hyped up claims.

Example: I shot phantoms and sniper 2's regularly. I shoot a Sniper2 much better than a Phantom, that does not mean that snipers shoot better than phantoms. What works best for me, may not work best for you.

As someone said once, its an aluminum tube with holes, a tube is a tube.

Shane-O

[Triangle]

Keep it clean.
Keep it dry.
Winner.

[Drizit]

ok that's it, this summer (can't realy test in the snow, I'd freez my buns off , I'll do a bench test, hammerhead vs. freak vs. whatever else i can find. I've got a longbow and a realy heavy vice, I'm even going to find another reg to put between the geddon and the mag valve, I'll even fit my old AIR valve to it as they are more consistant for slow shots. I will also put the paint through the sizzer so that I can use only balls that are about the same size. sound scientific enough?

[Shane-O-Mac]

ok that's it, this summer (can't realy test in the snow, I'd freez my buns off , I'll do a bench test, hammerhead vs. freak vs. whatever else i can find. I've got a longbow and a realy heavy vice, I'm even going to find another reg to put between the geddon and the mag valve, I'll even fit my old AIR valve to it as they are more consistant for slow shots. I will also put the paint through the sizzer so that I can use only balls that are about the same size. sound scientific enough?

Not really scientific enough. You need a level (or angle finder) so that the the barrels are at the same exact angle, You need a more accurate Gauge on your airsytem to make sure you are putting out the EXACT same pressure, every time. Adding a third reg wont help either, wouldnt hurt, but wont help. Main thing you need is a chrono, a good chrono, the handheld ones aren't very accurate. you need a radarchron, or shooting chrono. Your gonna need a barrel bore micrometer to verify the barrels ID's. Also, regular paintballs arent very consistant either, reballs or similar would be best. Do all that and your results will still be questionable, why? Because your not in a controled enviroment. Outdoors isnt gonna be very good for accuracy testing, dealing with wind and barometric pressures, will throw things off. Using a sizer for the paint isnt gonna help, the sizer needs to be measured toensure accuracy, and the balls could fit thru the sizer on one pass, then not on another, (High sides). See how difficult it will be to prove? Or you can just look up Tom Kayes older experiments and believe them.....LOL

Shane-O

[Drizit]

Oh I'm not trying to debunk tom's work, I'm trying to lay to bed once and for all if the hammerhead kit is good, bad, or just the same as everything else. I'm not trying to prove WHY it works just IF it works. I can test indoors at a field, and can probably borrow the big red chrono for it as I only have a hand held at home. As to using reballs although they will be more consistent then real paint there is the issue of spin being imparted to the liquid fill so I think I'll still use real paint. I have an angle finder so that's no problem. I don't have a barrel bore micrometer, I have a set of calipers but that's not accurate enough when it comes to measuring a tube, what I'm thinking is I'll conduct the test with a couple of different backs/inserts just to be sure I've gotten the correct size. As to the paint not fitting I'll be rotating the ball in the seizer just to make sure and using the best paint I can get my hands on. As to humidity and barometric pressure it should be constant if I do all the testing at the same time. same with input pressure as long as I don't touch the settings on the gear, I'll just plug my 4500psi scuba tank into the fill nipple to make sure I've got lots of juice for the test to eliminate tank pressure drop as a source of questions and the Geddon is already dual regulated, and very consistent. If I pass it through another quality reg, say a Maxflow (as I have one around, and the AIR reg that should eliminate all concerns as to input pressure, and as I'll be firing over a chrono if any shots are out of tolerance (I think within 3-5fps should be close enough) then I will ignore that shot from the results. (I will however note how many for each barrel were dropped and what speed they were as if one kit has an abnormally high number of inconsistent shots it could be indicative of an issue with the kit) I will however make sure that every kit has the same number of shots counted for accuracy. I will also note the initial speeds of each kit before I set it back to 280fps as a rise in speed would indicate better efficiency as you would need less air behind the ball to get the same velocity.... hmm... If I'm going to go to all this trouble I should see if I can get kits from the marketing guys of a few companies just for this test. That way I'll have more to work with. I think the hardest part of this whole exercise is going to be getting a few hundred balls exactly the same. Anyone know of any tests of who has the most consistent paint out there?

Edited for spelling that would make a 5 year old blush.

[Shane-O-Mac]

Oh I'm not trying to debunk tom's work, I'm trying to lay to bed once and for all if the hammerhead kit is good, bad, or just the same as everything else. I'm not trying to prove WHY it works just IF it works. I can test indoors at a field, and can probably borrow the big red chrono for it as I only have a hand held at home. As to using reballs although they will be more consistent then real paint there is the issue of spin being imparted to the liquid fill so I think I'll still use real paint. I have an angle finder so that's no problem. I don't have a barrel bore micrometer, I have a set of calipers but that's not accurate enough when it comes to measuring a tube, what I'm thinking is I'll conduct the test with a couple of different backs/inserts just to be sure I've gotten the correct size. As to the paint not fitting I'll be rotating the ball in the seizer just to make sure and using the best paint I can get my hands on. As to humidity and barometric pressure it should be constant if I do all the testing at the same time. same with input pressure as long as I don't touch the settings on the gear, I'll just plug my 4500psi scuba tank into the fill nipple to make sure I've got lots of juice for the test to eliminate tank pressure drop as a source of questions and the Geddon is already dual regulated, and very consistent. If I pass it through another quality reg, say a Maxflow (as I have one around, and the AIR reg that should eliminate all concerns as to input pressure, and as I'll be firing over a chrono if any shots are out of tolerance (I think within 3-5fps should be close enough) then I will ignore that shot from the results. (I will however note how many for each barrel were dropped and what speed they were as if one kit has an abnormally high number of inconsistent shots it could be indicative of an issue with the kit) I will however make sure that every kit has the same number of shots counted for accuracy. I will also note the initial speeds of each kit before I set it back to 280fps as a rise in speed would indicate better efficiency as you would need less air behind the ball to get the same velocity.... hmm... If I'm going to go to all this trouble I should see if I can get kits from the marketing guys of a few companies just for this test. That way I'll have more to work with. I think the hardest part of this whole exercise is going to be getting a few hundred balls exactly the same. Anyone know of any tests of who has the most consistent paint out there?

Edited for spelling that would make a 5 year old blush.

First off, you have read this right? http://www.automags.org/resource/tec...spinning.shtml

A couple of corrections, your 'Geddon is NOT double regulated, trust me I know, I used to be a tourney tech for Air America. And adding a Max-flow in between your 'geddon and air valve, will not gain you anything, it has a higher possibility of skewing your results.

Ok, Paint is a HUGE variable, thats why if you wanna do it right, use reballs, weigh them and take only the reballs that are within a couple of grams of each other. The problem is, your not gonna get any signifigant spin out of a rifled barrel, dont believe me, reread that above link. If you wanna hook up your scuba tank to it, your gonna need to gut the fill nipple and use the scuba tanks valve to shut off the air.

Now if you just wanna do it for fun, thats cool, it could be fun, but not very conclusive.

Shane-O

[Lohman446]

*IF* a barrel performs better for you (though I would point towards placebo effect) wonderful, use it.

However, do not try to explain why it is better because it ignores laws of physics.

You know what, a long time ago I asked the most accurate shooter at the field what he used. Keep in mind he routinely one balls people both in the speedball arenas and out in the woods. He had to look - because when he switches markers (as he does frequently) he uses whatever barrel is on it. Guess what, equipment alone cannot compensate for lack of skill. I have spent a lot of money playing paintball and proving this point.