Pressure-Compensating and Balanced regs

[UTDragun]

what exactly are these two and what are the pros and cons of each?

[cledford]

[Steelrat]

Geez Cledford, that was a pretty nasty snipe at Aaron. I don't think anyone ever claimed massive benefits from it, but for those people looking for the Nth degree of performance, the pressure compensating SCM and the like deliver it. Why not try to advance the technology? There is a lot of crap out there that costs nearly as much, and frankly, if you don't like the price, don't buy it.

And, for the record, I've never had a problem with an SCM, and I've owned a lot of AKA markers. You just have to remember to adjust up, not down.

[cledford]

Yeah, it was a little harsh, but Aaron/STD/AKA have been known to make some nice claims with nothing to back it up. I think that the Viking/Excal are still the nicest ram based markers out there - but there were even claims made there that wern't backed up. Aaron, like everyone else, is subject to be called out. I would have liked to have seen some hard numbers from him as there were a couple of well thought out questions regarding the SCM that were never addressed.

I should add that aaron is more than smart enough (unlike a lot of those out there hawking the "newest" cutting edge advancement in PB tech) to back his claims up with decent math/proof - if he so chose. Unlike a lot of others he has the training, education and ability - but I've never seen it and don't understand why. That makes me wonder, especially when AKA/STD tends to run twice the cost of "normal" tech goodies.

-Calvin

[WenULiVeUdiE]

what exactly are these two and what are the pros and cons of each?

Pressure compensating basically means the output pressure of one reg (LPR) will not change if the output pressure of it's air source changes. Many DM3 owners had to constantly deal with this. They cange their HPR pressure and would have to adjust their LPR to compensate.

I think the claim that it is overly complex is alittle off base. It does lead to inconsistancy or anything. There is less maintenance to do on the pressure compensating SCM-2 than there is to do on a non-compensating Timmy or Cyborg or Matrix (etc.) LPR.

cledford- Any examples of where Aaron needed to back himself up? I know Larry did spew abit of hype with the Excalibur and such. To my knowledge, Aaron has never made any public claims.

[rkjunior303]

Yeah, it was a little harsh, but Aaron/STD/AKA have been known to make some nice claims with nothing to back it up. I think that the Viking/Excal are still the nicest ram based markers out there - but there were even claims made there that wern't backed up. Aaron, like everyone else, is subject to be called out. I would have liked to have seen some hard numbers from him as there were a couple of well thought out questions regarding the SCM that were never addressed.

I should add that aaron is more than smart enough (unlike a lot of those out there hawking the "newest" cutting edge advancement in PB tech) to back his claims up with decent math/proof - if he so chose. Unlike a lot of others he has the training, education and ability - but I've never seen it and don't understand why. That makes me wonder, especially when AKA/STD tends to run twice the cost of "normal" tech goodies.

-Calvin

i tihnk dan backed up his LPR perfectly fine when he demonstrated its flow capabilities when he hooked it up as an inline reg with a viking on full auto.

[FallNAngel]

i tihnk dan backed up his LPR perfectly fine when he demonstrated its flow capabilities when he hooked it up as an inline reg with a viking on full auto.

Yes, but that's flow. It has nothing to do with pressure compensating measures.

On a traditional, non-pressure balancing regulator, as the input changes, the output changes inversely. Basically, as one goes up, the other goes down. How much the swing is depends on the regulators ratio. For instance, I think Sidewinders have a 70:1 ratio. This means as the input changes by 70psi, the output will change by 1psi.

For example, let's say your tank has 4500psi in it and the marker is set at 200psi. You shoot 3500psi from the tank. If the tank reg has a 30:1 ratio, then 3500 / 30 = 116psi increased pressure to the marker . 116 / 70 = 1.65 decrease in operating pressure. If the LPR is only a 30:1 ratio... well... 1.65 / 30 = 0.055psi increase. Not a lot of change.

Granted, the ratio of the tank reg and LPR in the example above are just numbers I picked off the top of my head... but I think you get the idea. For the most part, a good inline regulator is really what you need, not a pressure compensating LPR.

[Pneumagger]

just as a sort of comparison...what are the typical LPR ratios for both pressure compensting and balanced types?

What are the typical ratios for inline regulators and tank regulators for that matter?

[FallNAngel]

Good question, honestly I have no idea.

I know the Palmer Stabilizer and Sidewinder *should* be 70:1. I believe the Fatty Stabilizer is 90:1

Past that, I'm not sure. Most tank regs aren't really all that high from what I'm told, as they're made for flow, not consistency over the pressure range of the tank.

Honestly, I think having a pressure compensating LPR and a poor HPR is a bit pointless. You're better off getting a good HPR and just not worrying about it. You'll have better consistency in the long run and if it's a pressure compensating HPR, you shouldn't have many fluctuations in the LPR anyway.

If I had the option to do it all over again, I'd get a Palmer LPR instead of my STD LPR for my Freestyle.

[Steelrat]

If I had the option to do it all over again, I'd get a Palmer LPR instead of my STD LPR for my Freestyle.

Why?

[FallNAngel]

I had a problem with my STD reg piston pinching the piston o-ring. It happened once or twice at home and I thought it was me... then it just happened on the field as I was just standing there. Ended up having to send in the LPR to STD to have it worked on. It hasn't happened since then, but I have near zero tolerance for things like this. Same reason I've thought about selling my Cheetah board. If they can't ensure they have a fully working product when it leaves the door, should I really be using their product?

Past that, the Palmer LPR (from what I hear) has a better range of adjustment... ie. A 1/4 turn adjusts the pressure less on a PPS LPR than an STD LPR. Thing is, STD got to the market first, so that's what I went with. When it works, it's peachy... since getting it back, I haven't had any problems.

[Steelrat]

Frankly, Palmer makes darn good stuff, I wouldn't mind either LPR.

[tyrion2323]

My experiences with AKA and STD have all been very positive

[nicad]

"Pressure-Compensating reg" and "Balanced reg" are both terms for the same thing.

In a reg, you want a high as possible ratio (which can be either inverse or direct, depending on the reg design), but you also want a large as possible reg seat so that it will recharge as fast as possible with minimal seat movement ("fast response"). The larger the reg seat, the lower the ratio or the larger the reg body has to be to maintain a higher ratio.

In theory balanced pin regs do not have a ratio (or it is oo:1), so you can have as large a reg seat as you want and not have to worry about the other parameters.
Typically, however, most "balanced" regs are still slightly un-balanced-- they use the "partially-balance" compensation to help fight for a high ratio AND large reg seat.

The Evolve Pi is a 100% balanced reg.
The 2Liter is a partially-balanced reg.

[Steelrat]

I think AKA has tended to advertise the recharge rate of the 2 liter more than it being balanced. How well does the pi do when it comes to recharge and flow?