Classic Valve question

[AZ_09]

So, i was thinking since i wasnt playing much lately, that id get a gun that ran on co2. So, i realized i could just get a Classic valved mag. Is the A.I.R. valve the classic? And what do the stars mean?

The main question, is if i can get a ULT and intelliframe to work with a classic valve with ULE body? I heard somewhere that the valve wont fit with the ULE, so is this true?

What would be the best setup for co2? Id like to make it lighter trigger pull.


If i do get a co2 running mag, id get a female palmers to go with it if that makes a difference.

[BigEvil]

Intelliframe = no problem

ULT = hit or miss. Some get it to work great, some cannot. AGD does not recomend the ULT on a classic(AIR) valve, mainly because the pressure that resets the on/off pin is much less than on an xvalve (emag valve, RT valve, ect)

The stars used to be the warranty.. every star = 1 free rebuild. They are meaningless now IIRC.

[AZ_09]

Would i just be able to get a differnt on/off pin?

[punkncat]

Would i just be able to get a differnt on/off pin?

Unfortunately there is no other on/off pin. The stock pull on a classic using the Intelliframe is not bad.


If you are going to use CO2 I would highly suggest getting an anti siphon tank or a remote. Classic valves CAN work on CO2, but if you pull up liquid they leak and sieze up until they thaw.....

[flyingpootang]

Use a RT type on/off with a .720 pin. Your pull will be consistant and still very light. Just to let you know With the same set up I mentioned I got 20 bps on my xmod emag..

[FlawleZ]

Use a RT type on/off with a .720 pin. Your pull will be consistant and still very light. Just to let you know With the same set up I mentioned I got 20 bps on my xmod emag..

So you're saying the classic valve is capable of 20 cycles per second without shortstroking or "chuffing?"

[flyingpootang]

I got 20bps with the exact same set up I recommended to you without chuffing or short stroking (I used F/A for the test) . I could have gone higher, but I ran out of air and sold the valve the next day. I just bought 3 classics, so I'll see how high I can go with out shoot down. Remember when electronicly actuated short stroking is not an issue. A spydermag conversion with a T-board and L10 bolt is the best way to update your mag www.lukescustoms.com A L10 bolt will not chop paint just incase you didn't know. Although Co2 is not a great option when shooting above 9bps because it will tend to freeze the bottle and marker...

[FlawleZ]

I got 20bps with the exact same set up I recommended to you without chuffing or short stroking (I used F/A for the test) . I could have gone higher, but I ran out of air and sold the valve the next day. I just bought 3 classics, so I'll see how high I can go with out shoot down. Remember when electronicly actuated short stroking is not an issue. A spydermag conversion with a T-board and L10 bolt is the best way to update your mag www.lukescustoms.com A L10 bolt will not chop paint just incase you didn't know. Although Co2 is not a great option when shooting above 9bps because it will tend to freeze the bottle and marker...

That's interesting seeing as how TK rated the Classic at ~14-15 tops. Do you have the test/recording? And did you use the RT on/off pin? I didn't think any other on/off was possible with the Classic valve.

[flyingpootang]

Here ya go:

http://home.comcast.net/~beemerone/HitechHyper1.avi

http://home.comcast.net/~beemerone/HitechHyper2.avi

[Lenny]

I remember reading in the Workshop forum (maybe Deep Blue, or the Tech...) that someone was widening the classic on/off and noticed it increased his ROF. I also remember hearing many times that the on/off is the only limiting factor on the classic A.I.R. valves.

I'm not sure about the reg choking it, but I've heard it's not a problem.

Pretty nifty if you ask me!

[Pneumagger]

Here ya go:

http://home.comcast.net/~beemerone/HitechHyper1.avi

http://home.comcast.net/~beemerone/HitechHyper2.avi

Wow. And those are just RT on/offs with .720 pins on that Emag?


Lenny: The on/off isn't the only limiting factor. There was a detailed post around on how a limited chamber recharge time is the primary culprit.

[BigEvil]

I remember reading in the Workshop forum (maybe Deep Blue, or the Tech...) that someone was widening the classic on/off and noticed it increased his ROF. I also remember hearing many times that the on/off is the only limiting factor on the classic A.I.R. valves.

I'm not sure about the reg choking it, but I've heard it's not a problem.

Pretty nifty if you ask me!

Although not as 'limited' as some belive, the classic valve does have its shortcomings. AGD designed the RT valves to 'slam' recharge the chamber but using full-line pressure, then cutting it off, where as the classic uses regulated air to fill it. The side effect of the slam-recharge is the RT effect... btw.

I made a spydermag once using a classic valve and ult... it shot fine, no detectable drop off or anything. The only problem was that the classic couldnt reset the ult as fast as the RT valves do. Thus, a limited ROF..... It wasnt caused by the on/off, but by the pressure in the valve.

I remember seeing that thread by the Electrician.. he does good work.

[AZ_09]

So, would this work-

ULE body
Classic valve with the r/t on/off and .720 pin
ULT
Intelliframe
Level 10
Female Palmers and anti siphon co2


Would that be good? Does the ULT really help that much on classic valves when its working?

I dont need to fire really fast, i have an impulse and my dad has a VL orion and he still shoots more than me so....

[Asym]

I currently use a classic from around 94 that was only used on CO2. I always used a sideline stabilizer and then later switched to a male stabilizer, the advantage of the male was it has a gauge unlike the older sidelines. Never had a problem with liquid except when the sideline gave out and needed to be rebuilt. The female should give you the same performance, I just prefered the male since it mounts in the VA and makes a nice grip.

I never used the anti-siphon tubes because I had more than 1 gun to use tanks on and they didn't line up on both guns. If you only plan on using 1 gun this shouldn't be an issue.

I installed the ULT and it works. The major problem is the pull is too light. If you can do a complete pull and let the trigger reset fully there are usually no problems, when trying to rapid fire this is almost impossible. The workaround for me was to build a spydermag frame, the solenoid is either on or off so it allows the on/off to fully reset so theres no shortstroking. So if you want to stay mechanical do the RT on/off.

Search warpig tech pages for CO2 and learn about the different temperature phase changes for CO2. That will give you a good idea of what temps you can play at with CO2 and your mag. Recomended input for the classic is 600PSI, internal pressure is around 400PSI, and rule of thumb is 200PSI between regs. With HPA I normally can shoot down to around 500PSI so milage may vary.

[Ace12GA]

I have no experience trying to get a ult to work in a classic valve, I do however have 2 classic valved mags. I only run them on CO2, and I find a remote is pretty much required for anything serious. I tried expansion chambers, which still let the liquid in; never tried a stabalizer though, so I may one day. I don't really rip on my mags, but don't have trouble getting 8 to 10 bps in bursts with the stock on/off. Thats enough to scare the crap out of most of the guys I play woods ball with.