07 Shocker

[neppo1345]

Are you sure about that? It seems like most guns use a poppet type valve.

To me there is nothing wrong with the shocker. SP may have "ruined" several companies, but who wouldn't have? I don't think it's fair to be angry at a company for trying to make money.

I was referring to guns that use any spool valve at all. Even if the main valve is a poppet.

[Shirow]

Yes, they are in business to make money. Who isn't?

Yes, their advertising is amazing (Sex Sells). However, I can go back to paintball magazines from the late 90's and see girls half naked with a gun...most of those companies aren't around anymore. So SP must be doing something better than advertising.

Yeah, they might not come out with the newest technical innovations every year...but who does? The ion is amazing for what is. Simplicity. I also happen to know that there are some new technical innovations coming out for the ion, improving it to the point to where a friend put down his ego for one.

SP started out just like every other paintball company, including AGD. Making improvements for the love of the sport. They grew, and once you get so big, you have to start to act as a business. AGD would probably be the same way had it not been for Tom's morals (opposition to high ROF's and the likes (Tom...correct me if I'm wrong)).

You're correct, people do buy mags because of their quality, I won't deny that. They're the highest quality guns still available. It's like comparing a U.S. sniper rifle to an AK 47. They both kill people, neither necessarily does it better, but one is cheaper. Which one do you see more of around the world? The people who know guns take the Sniper Rifle (mag), those who want simply get the job done get an AK (Ion).

We're all opinionated. I won't attack your beliefs, only give you mine so you can see where I'm coming from.

-Tim

Right, but it's the way you make money. Granted, I will never get over the whole patent fiasco, and that will permanently keep SP somewhere below my dirty laundry on the list of things I like, but there are moral companies that make money with good product and then the rest, I guess.

You can act as a good business or a bad one. Unfortunately, the bad ones typically succeed.

I will be honest and say that if the Shocker had AKA written on it instead of SP, I probably wouldn't be particularly opposed to info about it. I don't think I'd really be all that into it, but I'd have a different expectation of it.

[Shirow]

Are you sure about that? It seems like most guns use a poppet type valve.

To me there is nothing wrong with the shocker. SP may have "ruined" several companies, but who wouldn't have? I don't think it's fair to be angry at a company for trying to make money.

It's so easy to say that when it's had zero effect on you. Try to put yourself in their shoes. You create a wonderful product, some comes along, starts throwing some garbage patent around and puts you out of business.

Would you pat them on the back and say 'I can't be mad, you're just trying to make money!'

There are legitimate, moral ways to make money and then there's the sleazy, get rich quick, morally corrupt ways to make money. Some businesses don't embrace both sides.

I mean, this is how they win. They do something that is undeniably awful, IMO, and then they get the community to believe it's just a cost of doing business. If more people would be opposed to this kind of behavior, it would stop. Unfortunately, most people want the new 07 model of whatever :)

[neppo1345]

Right, but it's the way you make money. Granted, I will never get over the whole patent fiasco, and that will permanently keep SP somewhere below my dirty laundry on the list of things I like, but there are moral companies that make money with good product and then the rest, I guess.

You can act as a good business or a bad one. Unfortunately, the bad ones typically succeed.

I will be honest and say that if the Shocker had AKA written on it instead of SP, I probably wouldn't be particularly opposed to info about it. I don't think I'd really be all that into it, but I'd have a different expectation of it.

Oh yeah, an honest question...how much does SP actually make from other companies using their patents? How much do DYE and other companies have to pay them? Just wondering, I don't really know all that much about IP rights.

[Marroonblooded]

Looks like it would be fun to clean paint out of.

No lie there, I can't stand the thought of ellusive paint... that gun would be a nightmare...

does anyone else LOL over the fact that the 200 dollor ion has break beam eyes and is more efficient, yet costs less then used shockers?! and now that all the bugs are worked out ions are very nice guns. and im not goin to say "nice for the price" cuz they would still be nice if they cost more than they do... so why is shocker just now "catching up"

totally agree except that IMO the ion as fugly, like the single barrel design but man, it is ugly... so maybe you pay more just for the cooler looking shocker (looks good to me), but then again not completly unlike what I fell in love with years ago, automags.

But still would not choose one over a mag, I am so in love my classic I can't get over it... and I am not a fan of excessive ROF anywho (somewhere btwn 6 and 9 is all I will ever need)

[minimag03]

Wow, I got to hand it to SP, they pulled it off. Does anyone know if the board is different now?

[Lohman446]

I mean, this is how they win. They do something that is undeniably awful, IMO, and then they get the community to believe it's just a cost of doing business. If more people would be opposed to this kind of behavior, it would stop. Unfortunately, most people want the new 07 model of whatever :)

I don't see the protection of intellectual property rights as "undeniably awful".

[Shirow]

I don't see the protection of intellectual property rights as "undeniably awful".

Neither do I. What I do see as awful is obtaining a broad patent that covers something that (IMO) should not really be patentable in the first place, then waiting for an opportune time to suddenly decide you want to start 'protecting' it in order to cash in.

If they wanted to 'protect their IP' they would have done it the instant someone 'violated' their patent. Instead, they waited to maximize the amount of money they could make out of it.

What PTP did to DW over the hAIR trigger? That's protection of IP. If they had waited until he had 100,000 of them made and sold to protect it, that's a little different.

It is, of course, a subjective thing - some people think that the patent pirates going around trying to strong arm companies into settling out of court for 200k because it's cheaper than spending 2mil fighting the court case are legitimate businesspeople. I personally think they are the scum of the earth.

[SCpoloRicker]

[13thlegionnaireCapt]

the board is still the "NERVE RAMPING BOARD"...SO ATLEAST THE AFTERMARKETCOMPANIES STILL HAVE A SHOT AT SOME BOARD UPGRADES....they could have included the blackheart , but want the upgrade dollars too...

[Lenny]

If you like the 07 shocker check this out:

THE RUSSIAN LEGION SHOCKER this gun is so sweet. Way better than 06'.

No, you mean exactly the same as the '06 Shocker, which is exactly the same as the '05 Shocker, which is exactly the same as the '04 Shocker, which is exactly the same as the '03 Shocker, right?

Please stop posting pics of every gun you talk about, we all know what they look like.

And please stop making outrageously retarded posts. Sit back and read for a while, and please, only post a response if you know your response is correct. Oh, and use the search button to answer your questions before posting a thread about them. It would be much appreciated.

Thanks.

[SCpoloRicker]

And please stop making outrageously retarded posts. Sit back and read for a while, and please, only post a response if you know your response is correct. Oh, and use the search button to answer your questions before posting a thread about them. It would be much appreciated.

Thanks.

[slateman]

No, you mean exactly the same as the '06 Shocker, which is exactly the same as the '05 Shocker, which is exactly the same as the '04 Shocker, which is exactly the same as the '03 Shocker, right?

Please stop posting pics of every gun you talk about, we all know what they look like.

And please stop making outrageously retarded posts. Sit back and read for a while, and please, only post a response if you know your response is correct. Oh, and use the search button to answer your questions before posting a thread about them. It would be much appreciated.

Thanks.

Easy tiger. I believe he was just commenting on its looks. Frankly, I've never seen it, so I'm glad he posted it

[grEnAlEins]

No, you mean exactly the same as the '06 Shocker

Not really Lenny. SP did fix the three biggest problems...
1) Break Beam Eyes in E/NXT Shockers (nice)
2) New frames and triggers (no more insane trigger slop with the stock trigger {I would hope })
3) Better bolt kit (having the SP Turbocharger stock would make shelling out the cash for an evolve or new designz kit a bit tougher to do)

There is nothing wrong with the nerve boards. I like my Pred better, but it was not a bad board. The barrels are fine too. I think the new shocker would be darn appealing if I was in the market for a new gun. I am not about to buy one, but if I were, I would seriously consider one of these new shockers.

Now I should admit that I do shoot a Shocker now, and am NOT about to even consider buying one of the new ones. The only thing I want to see is TAG start making SFT style eyes again. Even that is not truely needed. And on another positive, the resale value of the 03-06 shockers is gonna shoot down and they will be dirty cheap. Sweet deal if you are looking for a new toy.

EDIT: and good point bout the pics in every other post

[Lenny]

Lol. I friggin' love those owls! But then... I'm not sure why... O RLENTE! being my favorite.

Easy tiger. I believe he was just commenting on its looks. Frankly, I've never seen it, so I'm glad he posted it

Ok, maybe this one was a poor example, but in the past he has posted pic's of Spyders, Karni's, etc. and damn near everyone knows what they all look like. It just takes up thread space and makes me feel less intelligent, like I have to be shown everything to understand what he's talking about. Like my 8 years playing count for nothing.

Not really Lenny. SP did fix the three biggest problems...
1) Break Beam Eyes in E/NXT Shockers (nice)
2) New frames and triggers (no more insane trigger slop with the stock trigger {I would hope })
3) Better bolt kit (having the SP Turbocharger stock would make shelling out the cash for an evolve or new designz kit a bit tougher to do)

There is nothing wrong with the nerve boards. I like my Pred better, but it was not a bad board. The barrels are fine too. I think the new shocker would be darn appealing if I was in the market for a new gun. I am not about to buy one, but if I were, I would seriously consider one of these new shockers.

Now I should admit that I do shoot a Shocker now, and am NOT about to even consider buying one of the new ones. The only thing I want to see is TAG start making SFT style eyes again. Even that is not truely needed. And on another positive, the resale value of the 03-06 shockers is gonna shoot down and they will be dirty cheap. Sweet deal if you are looking for a new toy.

EDIT: and good point bout the pics in every other post

I understand what you're saying, but it is the exact same gun. I don't count improvements high enough to call something "new" based soley upon them. It's like the DM/PM series. The DMC has numorous improvments over, say, a DM3; but is it a new gun? No. It's just a modified version. Just because they add some modifications and add some more words to the title ("Russion Legion") does not make it a new gun.

And I do not doubt it is a good gun and, in some respects, better than the original Shocker. I too own an '03 style Shocker and it is a GREAT gun and I really do enjoy it. It's fast, light accurate, etc. So really, I do completely understand your points.

Also note he said "much better than the '06 Shocker," which is the exact same as every Shocker model produced by SP since '03.

And thanks about the pic comment :)