Rifled barels... again.

[thirdturtle]

Just been flopping around on Deep Blue trying to come to terms with an Empire Twister I have laying around... and the number of Armson Stealths that have launched paintballs directly between my eyes...

I can accept that the construction of paintballs is dissimilar to bullets, that the densities and speeds are dramatically different. But Armson barrells glob up my goggles from too far away too often, and my Empire Twister performs very well, for me to so easily discount the rifleing so completely. Just like I think a cocker seems to shoot a flatter trajectory paintball than the cheap spoolers and blow backs that I often play with... I really don't care that warpig or anyone else has a decisive article that demonstrates that there is no 'measurable' truth to the closed bolt accuracy claims... 'cause I can see a difference.

So maybe the attention has been misplaced in rifled barrels. Maybe the focus shouldn't be on the ball itself, but on the way in which the barrel changes air flow. One post a couple of months back suggested adding a secondary flow of air to a barrel to create an added turbulence around the shell of the ball... There are very clever and technical posts about this--using golf balls as examples--in Deep Blue, describing a localized turbulence as way of reducing drag.

Is this a reasonable way of reconsidering my observation that these barrels (fixed bore) seem to shoot a variety of paint with better than average consistency?

[chip08]

No matter what, a barrel doesn't change the fact that a paintball leaves at 300 fps. The open bolt is no different than a closed bolt. Maybe the guys you play against aim a little better and happen to shoot closed bolt.

[BeaverEater]

Ive shot guns with armson barrels and almost all of the barrel kits you can buy today shoot better. It really doesnt have to do with rifling at all, just paint to barrel match.

[Lurker27]

I am of the opinion that the principle beneficial effect of such barrels is to have a decent amount of farily equally distributed pressure stabilizing the ball laterally during the duration of the shot (some air blows by). This decreases the amount of contact with the walls, and thus minimizes the amount of spin a ball can accrue, so it shoud show a slightly tighter pattern than a barrel that is poorly matched, but not as good as a matched barrel, which will not spin due to multiple consistent points of contact, and will also provide better efficiency.

[thirdturtle]

I never tried to suggest that a single bore barrel with rifling was superior to a quality bore match. I would never challenge that piece of dogma.

It might merely be coincidence that all of the varieties of rec paint that move through my local field might match an armson's bore better than all other barrels around... but I doubt it.

My feelings lean towards Lurker's response... that there may be a true consistancy improvement--not related to imparted spin to the ball (the Twister and Armson both have a non-linear rifling)--but the way in which it influences the air flow around the ball.

Lurkers suggestion that multiple points of contact on a good barrel match inhibits spin is interesting to me... I have never really thought about why a good barrel match effects paint in a positive way... I always thought of ways that a bad match would affect the interaction between barrel and paint... I imagine if we are considering multiple opposed points of contact as that which prevents spin, there is a point of diminishing returns... i.e. the 'match' is too close... but we're probably getting outside of the reasonable tollerances of paintball manufacture here...

I very much disagree with Chip. WRT BPS: The initial speed of paint leaving the barrel is only sufficient to project a trajectory in a vaccume... not on a playing field. Everyone knows this. WRT Closed/Open bolt: It may be that some closed bolts perform in some instances in a comperable manner to open bolts... but the fact is that the sequencing is different and the way in which the ball begins its flight can be influenced. This can, depending on circumstances, influence it farther down its flight. At least I think so.

[rx2]

I am sure that you think you see these proofs in the pudding. Lots of people think lots of things. That doesn't mean it is true in any respect.

Thousands (sometimes millions) of people swear that:
- they have encountered a crypto-zoological organism
- they have seen ghosts
- they have been kidnapped by aliens
- they were healed by the image of a religious figure in a tree/door/sandwich, etc.
- they, or someone else has talked to the dead
- hot water freezes faster than cold
- earth is only 6000 years old
- Kennedy was shot by at least 50 different people, at the same time (a little hyperbole)
- jazz is the ultimate expression of the musical art form

Somehow, these people never produce any real evidence. There is always a nice story, and a lot of hearsay, but nothing concrete.

So, perhaps you are convinced that you see these things happen. That is great, but it doesn't do anyone any good. So far, all evidence says that you are wrong (including the observations of what happens to the paint as it leaves the barrel, where it really matters). Perception is hard to overcome, but, that isn't to say that you can't be right. So, then, I would say that you are doing no good by merely stating your observations, or formulating a hypothesis that people have already gone through great lengths in disproving. The burden of proof rests on you. If you can present any proof, then that would be great. It would force us to reconsider what we currently hold to be the most accurate assessment of the subject, and gaining further knowledge is always a good thing. Until then, you are rehashing a tired argument, and presenting points that have already been considered ad nauseum since the nineties.

[stop whining buy a mag]

A liquid filled sphere is never accurate.

It would be interesting to hear about the air flow around the ball from someone who knows plenty about physics. But either way, any slight change isn't going to be noticable. I've shot some rifled barrels and saw nothing special happen.