Team sponsorships from speedball to the woods and its effect

[punkncat]

I know that many of you have noticed how hard its becoming to get ANY sort of sponsorhip for a speedball team nowdays. And the deals that many had are slowly dwindling away to almost nothing. Most of them amount to a preferred customer discount.

With the push in revitalizing and renewed intrest in the woodsball/scenario end of the sport, I have been seeing more and more sponsorships being offered to (woods) teams. Not so much large corporate deals like before, but some really nice offers being made by local fields, stores or custom shops. Most of them only looking for honorable teams to put a logo or patch somewhere on their person.
Two offers the group I play with have had so far this season involved a full outfitting of a specific optional sighting device for the entire team for wearing an armpatch advertizing the site. The other involved all team paint, and field fees at specific events through the season in exchange for a "sim/jersey" with logo and putting up a banner with the said sponsors name in camp and other considerations.

I feel like when people are getting paid to play (so to speak) it tends to bring out lesser conduct on the field. We have all seen the lack of honor among speedballers trickle down all the way into rec ball.
Its not to say that woodsballers are ALL more honorable, but given the lack of active reffing and other variables the play of the game does require a bit more honesty and willingness to call yourself on something questionable. The logistics of the game make it impossible to cover the field with judges. Given that this is in part what makes the game playable, if the mindset that is common among speedballers drifts over, then the game will basically deteriorate.
-edit- to expand on that thought. Basically now in most cases and a common view here on the forum is that if someone cheats in woodsball its not uncommon for players to "convince" the cheater to be honorable or find somewhere else to play. But if the "ref didn't see it, didn't happen" mindset becomes common the game would be much like playing war as kids where you could shoot each other with your fake gun and each kid is yelling "you missed me".


Has anyone else noticed this shift?

How long before woodsball begins to suffer from the same problems that "tourney" league ball suffers from?

[Outlaw5]

Honor!

Punkncat, You and I along time ago didn't see something the same way and that aside......like you would remember me....I think this is a very interesting question that needs some opinions from a fairly seasoned forum such as AO. Not saying it wouldn't be good at PBN but I think this forum has some members like myself who have been playing the woodsball/rec scene "forever" because what we saw in the "newer" speedball generation kinda turned us off from even trying that scene.

I can see your point and that degredation could and probably will happen in various places in the U.S. but I believe that because of the types of sponsors (smaller entities) the "senior" personnel on a sponsored squad will ensure the type of player that is picked for the team will be vetted to ensure they understand about "Honor, fairplay and the note that it is still just a game". If the wrong player is selected by a team sponsored by a field owner or smaller entity, like the tournament teams, there are 50 more players that want that spot on the team for all the right and wrong reasons. Those team captains that have to work with the sponsor know that they can't lose the sponsorship so their selection of players will be important for their own "survival" as a sponsored team.

As with big sponsorships in the tournament series a team that cheats and has a bad reputation will eventually be dropped and with the "smaller entities" that have alot to lose with bad press/reputations the reaction will be quicker than some incidents over the years in the various tournament series around the U.S.

Your thoughts people???

Outlaw5

[punkncat]

Punkncat, You and I along time ago didn't see something the same way and that aside......like you would remember me....

I didn't, had to look it up, and to me was no big deal.


Thanks for your input on the subject. I hope that things will go that way. I would love to see the aspect that brought me into the sport and what I have been more leaning towards as of late will continue to be as honerable as in the past.

[BD_Paintball]

maybe its because I play for a college but we have had tons of sponsorship opportunities. we have an amazing indoor field that lets us practice with their factory team after store hours. we get good deals with PMI, and also great deals from a store. we dropped another store a year ago but we could be getting deals from them if we wanted to. from my experience playing woodsball which started about 7-8 years ago there has always been people who cheat. when i started to play airball i didnt notice that many more people cheating. there are not that many serious tourney players that play woodsball that i have seen. its so much easer to cheat in woodsball and many people do, its not only the tourney players who started to play in the woods that are the ones cheating. on another note are you just play "big games" or are there woodsball tourneys? i guess i dont know why a store would want to sponsor a team that plays in the woods.

[spike_ball999]

I think that woodsball and speedball players take two different kinds of people.
Woodsball is more of the chivalrous style. Making sure people are doing what needs to be done and still have fun with it. It definitly takes honor to play it. In a sense, it's more of the old way of thinking.
Speedball is definitly the modern sport. Fast paced with instant gratification. It's how a lot of people think.

Speedball is definitly the place for sponsorships. With all the push right now going for TV exposure of paintball, arena airball fields are the easiest to watch and have commentary for. It's got the fun of watching a basketball game or other arena sport.

Woodsball and scenario games on the other hand aren't as fast paced. To me, it would be like watching golf. Fun to play, not to watch. It's too slow for most of the A.D.D. mindset. For that reason, it's not as good for sponsorships. Sure, you do see them, and the woodsball and scenario teams that do have sponsorships are impressive. It's definitly harder to make a name for yourself in a setting like that compared to speedball.

Now, look at other sports and their cheaters. They get a flag, pulled out for a game, or a foul, but their major sponsors dont just up and drop them. Paintball should be the same way. With every sport, you're going to have cheaters and a sport without cheaters or rulebreakers would just be boring and strange. The cheaters also balance out the people that will call themselves out on a questionable hit.
Think about Dennis Rodman of the Chicago Bulls. Flat out crazy guy willing to do almost anything to get the point. Did he get a foul in his career? Yes. Many times.

In the competitive environment, it's hard to be a good sportsman when your objective is to be on top, not just second best. Some people, like Dennis Rodman, will do anything to get the win. Now if their caught or not is a different story. That's up to the other players, and the refs to be able to spot it. And really, sometimes you don't even know you're hit. That's one of the hardest parts of the game and causes some of the biggest arguments in speedball.

A foul is a foul and everyone does something wrong. Cheating or making a wrong decision doesn't degrade the team unless EVERYONE in the team does it. And I'm sure it's not just like they get away with it all the time. There are definitly times when a ref will catch them, and if not, possibly the coach or another teamate. The cheater will probably get a good talking to and a reminder then. Every player does need to be aware of themselves so they can possibly call themselves out.

I really don't think the cheating mentality will filter to woodsball any more than it has. As I said, it won't appeal to a lot of people so many of them will just continue to play speedball. And the people that do move to playing woodsball have other people around them to teach them the way they should think and behave when playing. That will be left up to the senior players and capitans.

[punkncat]

on another note are you just play "big games" or are there woodsball tourneys? i guess i dont know why a store would want to sponsor a team that plays in the woods.

Most of the focus is concerning coverage at "big games" and the better offer we have is for covering costs at selected ones. The other, who is actually a small shop, is simply in return for wearning his patch on our gear.

There are a growing number of woodsball tournies. Especially in the low tech and limited paint arena.

[athomas]

Years ago when all tournys were in the woods, we had the same problems we have today with cheating and players who thought they could do no wrong. Many of those same players played scenario games with everyone else. Eventually as tournaments moved into the speedball arena a lot of tournament players moved out of the woods and now only practiced in that environment. Woods ballers stayed in the woods. Most of these players were casual players but many scenario players who don't play speedball also stayed in this environment. As fields opened up full time speedball arenas as well as woodsball fields, two different styles emerged. One is a fast paced in your face style, the other a more relaxed style. Each contains people who push the limits of right and wrong. In speedball its more noticeable due to the closer confines of combat plus things happen at a faster pace, but it still happens in the woods as well.

A lot of sponsors initially sponsored speedball because it was emerging as the tournament of choice. People wanted to be associated with winning, not just playing. Because woodsball is still the main money source for most paintball markets, a lot of sponsors are now putting money on those players/teams. More general players see these scenario players than see the tournament players so it increases the overall visibility of their store/product.

Overall, I haven't noticed much difference in conduct for both types of players. There are good and bad apples in both.

[Aslan]

I agree...once woodsball players realized they didn't need to leave the woods to play tournament level (SPPL, Big Game, Scenario, etc...)...alot of us woodsballers got excited. With that excitement comes $$$ and sponsors follow the money.

I hate to agree with the premise of this thread, but I have seen alot of speedballers show up at outdoor fields on a Saturday and just start destroying people with their better equipment AND good technique. At first I didn't mind it, because not only did they wear big red jerseys and use shiny guns that were easy for an old man to see...but I also LEARNED alot from them...how to snap shoot, how to peek out of bunkers, how to protect your hopper, and how to tuck your feet and elbows (still working on the elbows thing )...BUT...yes, recently I've become more and more upset as the other part of the speedball/tourney game has crept in...players blatantly cheating. I've seen guys wipe, I've seen guys call themselves out and then walk back onto the field without going out, I've seen guys ramping up the velocity, etc... And, like the original poster mentioned, you add in money....it just gets worse. That's why I've always liked the ide of having the biggest monetary prize be for sportsmanship...let's start grooming teams into a mindset that it's worse to cheat and win than play fair and lose.