for all you cheap skates that want a higher ROF...

[renegade2k]

will it fit a benchy?

[wikidclown]

my friend has a cocker with hinge trigger i can fire that alot fast than my mag do cockers are really not that slow at all

[than205]

here is something interesting I found

http://www.pigtv.net/01_summary/01_amopen.shtml

go to the section where:
Bill Mills talks to Dennis Ashley of Centerflag Products about their electronic trigger frame for the Worr Games Products Autococker.


or

http://www.pigtv.net/01_summary/01_NPPLcup.shtml

go to the section where:
Interview with Dave Zinkam of Protech paintball. Dave explains Protech's new electronic trigger conversion for the WGP Autococker.

What did both of these gentlemen say about the speed of a cocker?

[-sCaN-]

Originally posted by Maghappy
plus cockers arent fast guns......

r00fl...mine is fast as hel and im sure i could keep up with any mag without it being a new e-mag...(doh!)

sCaN

[TheBigRaguPB4L]

blah blah blah, my cocker can do this, my mag can do that............ yeah yeah yeah, you worry about your guns rof fire while i bunker you. geeez. i noticed something the other day. i saw a team practice and a this guy i know that was on one of teams(he's a back guy) was rippin on his trigger. in all of that, all he managed to do was just go through half a case in one game. i'm sure he did a lot more in the game, wasn't really paying attention to it. but meanwhile, he went through half of his paint in one game cause he had such a high rate of fire. it just seems to em that a higher ROF is just an excuse to waste paint. i'll stick with where i'm at. i go through enough paint as it is. i don't need any help

[gothicel]

here here. ROF, it's not all about laying down paint, it's about hitting someone with that paint. I for one think it's more about positions and tactics, of course you need someone to provide some suppressant power but that's all that is.

[XspyX]

You guys can dump a case of paint on speedball all you want. I'll use my fast ROF and my hopper in Urban and Woods

[personman]

About the safety hazard issue

Maby AGD will make a frame with a Revmoveable trigger guard, like the C98? Then you could replace the trigger & trigger guard w/ a double trigger guard and trigger

[barretc]

when i use my friends Defiant (or any other electro), which is much faster than my automag(trigger wise), I shoot alot less paint..go figure i dont know how to exsplain it..for example: i shot 4 ppl and only used 50 rnds. and when i normailly use an electro, i shoot 150 rnds max in a game. That is why im getting a bushmaster in a week.

[cracyboy]

Cockers arnt fast????????

ive got 2 cockers right now but not for long il selling both of them , but i had a nice mag about last fall , the cocker is fast , just as the mag is fast , where did you get that cockers wernt fast????????

[Ityl]

Why can't electro cockers fire faster than 12 bps (fire well, not just cycle) without major modifications? Cockers aren't meant to fire fast. It's like why is the Shocker limited to 11.8 when the standard is atleast 13.

[Dubstar112]

Well, simply put, cockers can fire fast.. mags can fire fast.. but the faster the cocker fires, the more the OB time is CUT in half because it makes 2 motions for one pull.. where as in an open bolt marker the faster you fire the OB time decreases slower in comparison. However the limit to how fast an autococker can fire is out of reach of almost all human fingers(not including electro frames)

[HyperSnyper]

I dont wanna start another Mag vs Cocker debate or say that this is better than that discussion... but...

Listen to Than205, he is right. You can go to those links and find out that the limitation in the Cocker is the Cycling speed. They said the cocker is limited to a Max of 11-13 bps. I guess the ram just cant cycle the bolt while recocking the hammer fast enough. (Whats wierd is that they say that is the limitation in the COcker, but has been proven that the Spyder Blowbacks can effectively cycle dry at 46 bps... Insane!)

Now to even up the side. It has also been proven and revealed with the magic of online media that a Stock Classic Mag valve can shoot and laydown some crazy 16 bps of paint on the Odyssey paintball videos of the HALO loader.

This was only accomplished with a E-frame and HALO. Most Mag people cant even fire this fast mechanically without short stroking it. Whats the use firing so fast if you're gonna just slice some paint?

Cockers have the same dilemna, after 11-13 bps, it in a way short strokes too.

What it all comes down to? Mechanical Mags and Cockers shoot the same ROF... and Accuracy. End of story. (However, the story changes when there is an electro conversion tossed in =).

-Hyper

[than205]

I too don't want to start a war. I also saw the Halo video. The stock mag valve got to level 7 how long ago and it performs that well.
I won't go into how I'm an old fart. I've been playing for a few (+) years. I've played with a few types of markers. My backup is a F1 Illustrator. (anyone remember that?) The only reason I moved up to a mag when I did was because I can't get parts for the F1. (also had a few finicky starts) I hope that establishes me as someone who is not out for some crazy speed.

When my F1 started going wacky, I reviewed what I had seen and read.
What I had seen was my team mate and his issues with his cocker and not so much his mag. He loves both markers. I had seen him continously upgrade his cocker. And when game day came more often than not the cocker would have some issue. So, his "very old" mag would go onto the field with him, and run without issue day in day out. He says when the cocker runs he has an awesome day.

I have shot the cocker, it is beautiful. (I feel what Tom hinted about recently with regards to the weight of the cocker giving a different feel of accuracy has some merit) It was running fine the day I shot it.

I remembered going to a tournament with my team to check the scene out. I remembered seeing a couple of guys with Angels doing their job laying down some serious amounts of paint. Up to the point where both guns started chopping so much paint they where rendered basically useless. One guy left the field with his marker disassembled and when he got to the staging area he tossed his $1000+ marker onto the table and declared he was selling it tomorrow.

I remembered holding a Spyder and hoping I wouldn't break it. My F1 shoots with less kick at 2/3 the weight.

I remembered another thing my team hitting the field every time without issue. Everyone of them with stock mags, and me tearing down my F1. Only for me to miss a game. So the coin came my way. And I chose a mag.

I like to stay open to all possibilities. So recently I went out on the web and started reading other markers forums and whatever page seemed intelligently written. What I found is this:

http://www.autococker.net/

http://nextbreedonline.com/forums/index.php

http://thecog.bizland.com/

http://www.pagestorm.com/wgpog/

http://www.warpig.com/paintball/technical/paintguns/balistic/closedopen.shtml

http://www.paintballtimes.com/2001test/

Read up, get informed. Make your own decision. Don't base it on flashy colors and hype. Seek facts that make sense to you.

Ask yourself some things.
Why isn't there a level 8 mag? or a mag 2K1?
How long has it been at level 7?
Why do all the aftermarket parts for mag have some very questionable actual performance value?
Why is the E-mag using an RT valve?
Why is that there are eight billion types of add-ons for everything else and these markers don't seem to be more reliable or even faster?

Speed is not the end all.
For me a working marker is.

I must be honest though. The mag is (or seems to me) to be hard on paint. Tom you recently asked what the next great advancement for paintball should be. Almost all the reply posts revolved around one thing, less paint breakage. I couldn't agree more. I hope that is in the future. (I think it may be)

[OldSchoolMag]

:0....
Welcome to the forum, Thantonos!

OSM

P.S. ... nice entrance...