Electronic Grip for Mags

[p8ntbal4me]

What would you pay for a Electronic Grip Frame for a Mag?

Frame would have to include the following:

Trigger Frame
Trigger Switch
LED or Activation Light
Safety
On/Off Switch/Button
Electronic Board w/ enhanced firing modes
Warp Feed/Intelli Interface
Port for Eye Upgrade
Battery Contained in the trigger frame
Pre-Crimped Wire Harness/Loom

If a frame like that came along,... what would you pay for it?

[mobsterboy]

pancake noid or EP?

[Dubstar112]

Im not gonna say that mags are dead, but at this point in time other parties have the situation taken care of and even they might struggle with demand. From inception to production well over a year is involved. Think would you all be willing to spend 400 bucks on your mag that you might or might not have in 18 months? Logic(almost there right? ), pneumags, and a flood of the market makes many more options such as emag conversions cheaper and more readily available.

Not opposed to new products but I dont see another company undertaking this.

It would have to be competitive with the effectiveness of a pneumag conversion, either by prices or reliability. I think the pneu has it conquered so far.

I voted 100 bucks!

[Dubstar112]

I lied. Tell me what you want to fit in there and Ill make one in cad. Im not a machinist infact the only thing I do is dig holes and fill them in with concrete. but i did take some engineering and graphics in college. this doesnt qualify me to do any thing except fuel peoples pipe dreams.

[img]http://img224.imageshack.us/img224/8149/untitledrk9.jpg

There I took the tag off so not everyone has to face the truth.

[txaggie08]

If someone i willing to machine an intelli frame to accept a trigger switch and pre-mount a pneumatic actuator in it, I bet they would make an absolute killing. They could be sold chepaly enough(maybe not even an intelli, but procure a supply for benchmark frames), and would put the final parts procurment and finishing work on someone elses shoulders.

[BigEvil]

If someone i willing to machine an intelli frame to accept a trigger switch and pre-mount a pneumatic actuator in it, I bet they would make an absolute killing. They could be sold chepaly enough(maybe not even an intelli, but procure a supply for benchmark frames), and would put the final parts procurment and finishing work on someone elses shoulders.

After considering the whole "EFRAME" idea for many months now.. there are two really big killers, (other than the fact you couldnt sell alot of them, which would kill most economic endevours) #1 - no one has any freakin boards available. (dont say SD's T-boards, cus they are more trouble then they are worth for something like this) and #2 you would have to basically fabricate your own ram or actuator.

The easiest path right now is this; get emag lowers with the Xmod on it, OR wait for these new DIY frames from Cerebrus (sp?) and fill in the blanks yourself.

My homemade eframe is awesome, and the parts are all readily available, other than the board. (ATM). Anyone can get excellent performance from off the shelf parts if they want to spend the time and effort to build one.

[txaggie08]

I was talking about using the clippard actuator. Sell a frame with that and a microswitch installed. Its the end user's problem to get an lpr(maybe offer rail channeling for airline) , board, and noid.


Shoot dont install it, just mill it for one.

[p8ntbal4me]

Dubstar112;

First,.. thank you for the pictures in the Solid 3D state. They help alot!

You make a HUGE and very valid point about the undertaking of the production of a product with this type of hype.

Im not saying in any way that I am producing a product like this or that I know someone is going to.

My point for posting the poll was that I do not have much to do during my off time for the winter season due to my job and last year I spent it doing work. Work that did not do what I wished it to accomplish.

This year, I wanted to set out and design something that will make an effort for my needs. I want a mag that can cream all the little tourney bugs and I dont want the problem of "oh hes using an AGD product. They are only fast cause they RT."

Okay,.. well Im sick of hearing it. Im tired of mags being hawk eyed over in a tourney or denied entry because they are fast and everyone that cant shoot one doesnt want to be on the other end of one. I figure,.. if we had a product that was independant of the gun, and could be added on so fast it would make changing a 9volt in a Revy seem slow. Then maybe Magger's can have their day.

The promise of a new product? No. If I was going to release a new product, I would do it the way Tom did the other proto-types like the intelli. Yeah he kinda showed off "a new grip frame comming soon" but never showed videos, pictures of it working, a finshed proto-type to make ur mouth water but no servicable products to sell.
You saw the proto-types,.. then all of a sudden, we had a new frame.

I dont have the resources to make frames, electronics, and sell them for a living. I do have the resources to make something for me thats gonna do my mag justice on all levels. Then after Im confident with what I have,... then I think that would be the time to turn it loose to the people that deserve a change for their pride and joy listed all over this web page.

(***sigh***, moment to breath!)

No offence taken and none given to anyone whom chooses to post here about this. Trust me when I tell you that I have a computer devoted to storing txt about this project in my kitchen. Every little mod and home grown kit you guys talk about, post pictures of, has made its way to my laptop in my kitchen (Right next to my NEW Jet 15" Drill press!) (Soon to be a neighbor of a Bridgeport 3601 CNC!! Can I get a w00t w00t!)

Mobsterboy: You asked about the noid? Yeah,.. I cant say right now,... its not that I dont know what I would use,.. its more of a "Let the patent go through first then actually show you what was used" type of thing. But I will say this,..... its like a kitchen door,... pivots both ways

Dubstar112: I just thought of this about your vote for $100. All the pneumag internals I saw posted on here could be bought in a kit from an AO'er for like $45,... u see that post? Thats $45 dollars of $100, leaving,..... $55. From what I see,... Intelli frames run $115, Y-Frames are $130, I just bought a Logit Vert Frame (which are sold out now) for $100 shipped. We will assume that an X-Valve or equililant and a ULT are allready purchased.

Okay,.. so my point being. From all the numbers, the materials to build a pneumag start at $145 and go to $175. You havent even started to figure in your time to build the gun either. Look at your CAD design of the vert frame you posted. I dont know how much time you spent on that, and I dont know what your time is worth. But look at it from the view that, your time has a value to it because if I wanted something done like this, I would have to PAY someone to do what you came up with.

Soon as my ideas get beyond my own resources,... I have to start figuring in what this will cost me besides raw material. Thats why I asked you, the AO what YOU would pay. Granted, I dont want to see another E-frame spin off on here for $500.

Keep picking away at this post,... I need help on this!!!!!

[p8ntbal4me]

After considering the whole "EFRAME" idea for many months now.. there are two really big killers, (other than the fact you couldnt sell alot of them, which would kill most economic endevours) #1 - no one has any freakin boards available. (dont say SD's T-boards, cus they are more trouble then they are worth for something like this) and #2 you would have to basically fabricate your own ram or actuator.

The easiest path right now is this; get emag lowers with the Xmod on it, OR wait for these new DIY frames from Cerebrus (sp?) and fill in the blanks yourself.

My homemade eframe is awesome, and the parts are all readily available, other than the board. (ATM). Anyone can get excellent performance from off the shelf parts if they want to spend the time and effort to build one.

I sent you a message a few times on your home page,.... didnt get a reply back. PM me when you can.

I got some secret squirrel things that are going to make you turn from the "BigEvil" to the "GiganticSatan"!

[BigEvil]

Well...

Here's the real kicker. Nothing for a mag would truely be drop in. Most likely, it would need some sort of tuning, or at worste, a full install. Also look to providing alot of advise and support. You would have to factor that in as well. When you think about getting a ton of emails everyday, from people with questions, it doesnt look all that apealing :-)

Just my $.02

[Dubstar112]

I saw that post. A pneumag conversion will work with any existing frame. You could make it in the stock frame if you wanted to, but most people have a metal 45 style frame to begin with. The pneumag you see is different than its predecessors, in that now the RT valve is so hyped that everyone thinks they need it. Punisher actually built one with a classic valve. He strongly suggested the RT valve be used, however not required. It appears to use a double acting ram... or something other than the RT valve on off to reset the pneumatics.

http://punishers-customs.com/pneu1.jpg

[p8ntbal4me]

I was talking about using the clippard actuator. Sell a frame with that and a microswitch installed. Its the end user's problem to get an lpr(maybe offer rail channeling for airline) , board, and noid.


Shoot dont install it, just mill it for one.

I was thinking about this. 2 reasons for not doing it this way:

The first would be quality control. It would be very hard to keep up the "reputation" of a working product if 90% of the product was "use and build at your own risk" type deal.

The second would be troubleshooting for the quality control. I know it can be as easy as "if you buy it we are NOT responsible" tags posted all over a web page when you buy it. But seriously,... a company cannot afford to produce a product and not support it.

Thats just my POV.

Now, for the better part of what your idea brings. REASONS for doing it your way!

COST! I dont have figures infront of me right now due to some pieces I am concidering changing out. But from just looking at it, the cost could be dropped alot. I will speculate and say 22%. My idea does not require alot of assembly, which means the cost to pay for it as a whole product shipped would be small money wise.

AVAILABILITY! I know, like me, most people are still waiting for the KM2 Morlock, the TAG E-Mag board, etc (Im waiting for both!) So having the product readily on hand would be a cake walk for the most part. The only difference with my idea VS say a Devil Mag frame, or the Logic frame, is that the parts for the electronics (power switches, trigger switches, board, etc), and the frame would be all under one roof as far as a distributors for pieces of the product.
Imagine a company like Molex that makes small electronic components having not only little connectors in HUGE quantities, but soleonoids, rams, electronid boards, software control, etc. The likelyhood of them running out of a part or 2 that would slow the finish product from comming off the line would be very slim. I know you are not going to find 1 person that can do EVERYTHING, but so far, Im down to 3. The other good part about this is the amount of items in volume these companies buy! Its one thing to order say 300-500 pieces of one part. Its another to order 3000-5000! Like I said, being able to do that limits the chance of "we are waiting on parts for XYZ. They should be here within a few weeks" <------ please dont shoot me for saying that!

DESIGN! As far as time spent in this catagory, it would be about half Im guessing. All that would be of critical matter is trigger, battery, board, and actuator layout. The rest would have to be up to the user.

[bryceeden]

Well, I paid $300 for E-mag lowers and couldn't be happier with them so I'd say around $300 would be a good enough price.

[p8ntbal4me]

Just so you guys know,.... still keeping your suggestions and ideas close at hand.

I ran into a major problem with the layout placement for the solenoid I want to use.

Looks like milling is involved. Its not much (3/8" X 1/4" X 1/2") and you could use a drill bit to DIY if you wanted to. But a mill bit would make it a 2 minute job. So much for "No tools required"!

Good news is that it still remains a bolt on application. And the internal workings will remain on the inside of the trigger frame (IE: The hyper frame grips had to be cut to allow space for the solenoid. Same with the DevilMag,... this does not.)

QUESTION: Does anyone know the way to measure the trigger pull? I was to ASSUME that it was from where the trigger meets the contact on the switch to the point where the gun fires. Is that correct?

[Miscue]

Personally... I would go buy a MINI instead.