Questions for the marker whores/sellers

[punkncat]

So we all know that resale on everything (other than Mags) has become a joke. I wanted to ask of you folks selling what kind of trends you are noticing.

What markers other than a Mag seem to hold resale? Are there any?

How much of your investment do you see out of reselling your marker after say a year? Two?
For instance if you are buying a marker new for $1000+ what percentage of that will you actually get back? What about the $200 markers? Even take into consideration resale of purchased used markers down the road...

Do you think, given the actual resale on markers now, and the gutting of value by market forces, that high end or low end markers actually hold better value vs. initial cost?

Is there any reason to upgrade a marker anymore given that in most cases you cannot even sell the marker for the cost of the upgrades? Consider as well that most new markers come decently outfitted out of the box. That the standardization of HPA has corrected many of the problems that we upgraded markers to correct.

How do you see the current resale market affecting future new marker sales? Quality/high end sales? Is there any reason to continue buying new?

[Lohman446]

Today, you are not buying $1000 marker because it is better than a $400 marker in function, reliability, ease of maintenance, etc. You are buying it for prestige. You will probably take a 40 to 60% hit in value over one year. Kinda like buying a brand new car

[buzzboy]

From what I have seen most guns after being sold used once or twice retain that price. Say I buy a gun used. I could probably sell it for what I bought it for if I didn't damage it in any way. And this could go on for a while if the gun was taken care of.

I have that same worry about people not buying new markers. Really I mostly see tourney dudes and kids with parents to buy them stuff, buy new guns. Mostly I see people buying off of one of the major FST forums out there. In a way this could change how people buy guns.

[GT]

The only guns that I know of that you can get near new to new price on used are pumps and some of palmer's guns. I have not bought a new gun in years. If you want to protect your investment you can do a couple of things

1. buy cheap, new. A new 98 costs 120 bucks, used they go for 90-100. Stay under 500

2. buy used, but buy the last gen gun. Have you priced used angels latly?

3. buy new, but buy guns that are actually worth something. Usually these are guns that have not changed a lot through the years, palmer's, carters, phatoms, CCM.....

4. buy new, but buy through small dealers. I was suprised the price I got back from a few dealers for a new promaster. There is a NIB forum on pbn and it has tons of guys who are trying to move product. Hit one of them up for a price requiest.

5. buy used rare guns. Rare is subjective, and most guns guys think are rare are not. For example 1 of 1 annos doesnt mean its rare. 01-02 cocker is worth no more than 120 but a revenge will fetch the upper end of 4-500.

[Lohman446]

2. buy used, but buy the last gen gun. Have you priced used angels latly?

But if I buy an upped (TAGed, eyed) Angel LED (or whatever now) for $300 do you think its going to lose money by the end of the year? I think it goes back to your cheap thing, if your buying old enough cheap enough your not going to lose money either

[punkncat]

4. buy new, but buy through small dealers. I was suprised the price I got back from a few dealers for a new promaster. There is a NIB forum on pbn and it has tons of guys who are trying to move product. Hit one of them up for a price requiest

I am not sure if you have noticed, but most retailers are obligated to sell at a set price. Online or not, big or small.

Tippmann has been doing this for a while and NPS/PMI just started it not long ago.

Isn't it called MAP?

priced a used angel lately

Actually the inspiration for this thread. I just traded off my Angel G7, what was a $1K marker a bit over a year ago, for what amounted to about $450 in parts.
When I first got it I was offered trades for Karta's and less than 18 months later, had to give it away.
I should have seen the writing on the wall. This has been happening for some time. The paintball market is creating a trap for itself that is going to drive the entire new gun market in the ground.
How long will people cooperate in taking so much loss in their investments? I mean hell, to me loosing 60%+ of my investment after a year is disheartening.
I can remember a time not so long ago that it was lucrative to buy used equipment and do a little fix-er-up and make a profit. Nowdays even if you are GIVEN a good marker you won't get enough for it to make it worth selling.

[Lohman446]

I am not sure if you have noticed, but most retailers are obligated to sell at a set price. Online or not, big or small.

Tippmann has been doing this for a while and NPS/PMI just started it not long ago.

Isn't it called MAP?

Minimum ADVERTISED price - they can sell at whatever price they want, they cannot advertise at low prices. Thats why a call is worth so much often.

[punkncat]

Minimum ADVERTISED price - they can sell at whatever price they want, they cannot advertise at low prices. Thats why a call is worth so much often.

Perhaps I am confused with the terminnology or misunderstood what I was told.

Local shop owner now sells everything at the same price it can be found online for. Noone can undersell him on anything he carries from NPS/PMI. He and they are obligated to sell at the same price lest they get their account pulled. He can mark it up if he wishes, but cannot sell BELOW the set price.

[GT]

Minimum ADVERTISED price - they can sell at whatever price they want, they cannot advertise at low prices. Thats why a call is worth so much often.

Correct

I can dig through my pms but I think the guys sent me a quote in the 230's.

Actually the inspiration for this thread. I just traded off my Angel G7, what was a $1K marker a bit over a year ago, for what amounted to about $450 in parts.
When I first got it I was offered trades for Karta's and less than 18 months later, had to give it away.

The intresting thing about angels is that they really havnt changed all that much since the days of the v6.

But if I buy an upped (TAGed, eyed) Angel LED (or whatever now) for $300 do you think its going to lose money by the end of the year? I think it goes back to your cheap thing, if your buying old enough cheap enough your not going to lose money either

I'd buy a stock angel, wait till the battery doest hold a charge or you loose your charger and then do the tag upgrade. In all the angels i have owned eyes were unneccasary as long as you had A) good detents, B) match the loader with the speed of the gun.

[GT]

Local shop owner now sells everything at the same price it can be found online for. Noone can undersell him on anything he carries from NPS/PMI. He and they are obligated to sell at the same price lest they get their account pulled. He can mark it up if he wishes, but cannot sell BELOW the set price.

He can sell below he just can't tell anyone.

[punkncat]

:
But if I buy an upped (TAGed, eyed) Angel LED (or whatever now) for $300 do you think its going to lose money by the end of the year? I think it goes back to your cheap thing, if your buying old enough cheap enough your not going to lose money either

I'd buy a stock angel, wait till the battery doest hold a charge or you loose your charger and then do the tag upgrade. In all the angels i have owned eyes were unneccasary as long as you had A) good detents, B) match the loader with the speed of the gun.

Why would you spend, what is it?, $400 on that upgrade when you can go buy one already done for $300? Or if you look around find an A4 or even a G7 for the 350-450 range?

Thats part of what I am getting at. If prices keep falling and value going down, services that cost the kind of money like pred-ing and Angel, how much longer will there be a market for it? Especially when you can go buy a BRAND NEW marker with eyes for $200?
How much longer will it be good buisiness sense to offer parts and upgrades for markers that cost less than the parts?

[punkncat]

He can sell below he just can't tell anyone.

IF he were to be discovered selling below, then he risks loosing the ability to deal with one of the only major vendors left.
Why would any buisinessman with half a brain put themselves in that position over a few customers?

I am not saying people don't do it. But where it used to be that you could search around and find a better deal, generally online, by and large MOST places sell the same things at the same prices across the board nowdays.

[RRfireblade]

Why would you spend, what is it?, $400 on that upgrade when you can go buy one already done for $300? Or if you look around find an A4 or even a G7 for the 350-450 range?

Thats part of what I am getting at. If prices keep falling and value going down, services that cost the kind of money like pred-ing and Angel, how much longer will there be a market for it? Especially when you can go buy a BRAND NEW marker with eyes for $200?
How much longer will it be good buisiness sense to offer parts and upgrades for markers that cost less than the parts?

It's been like that since the beginning , paintball is probably equal to or worse than computer technology.

Everything new is perceivably 'better' and retails cheaper. Loses on new marker values are at least 25-35% per year or more. After 2 years old or less , your lucky to see 50% of the original value still intact. And that's mostly only on 'desirable' markers , others are worse.

The only true 'investment' is in education and not falling to the hype that a 2 year old marker is outdated and feeling the need to 'upgrade' for no real reason other than status.

[Big Boy]

Guns that hold their value:

Mags
AKA
Palmers
Sheridans
CCI (mostly)

....that's all I can think of for right now.

[RRfireblade]

Guns that hold their value:

Mags
AKA
Palmers
Sheridans
CCI (mostly)

....that's all I can think of for right now.

In a nut shell , any marker that hasn't been replaced by newer and better versions.

I'd pull mags out of there tho , $800 retail on a new Emag and your lucky to turn it around the same day for 5.