Silly question about supply, demand and obsolescence

[CoolHand]

well most people dont know what any of that is so i didnt go into explain anything like that. but i have already installed it in the gun and because i made it such a smooth finish and exact bore it has no leaks and works perfect. also a slot is not needed for instalation since it will come out every time you unscrew a barrel so i drilled one hole to fit into the twistlock assembley and will not move and can only be removed if the gun is dissasembeled. oh and it has been reamed and couterbored slightly i have dont virtually the exact same thing as him. just mine is made from aluminum

when i finally get ahold of the right tap i will take pics for y'all and see what you say

ps is this under pat pend? if so i will quit right now doc

I went back and looked at Doc's adapters, and I was slightly confused about their configuration. I didn't realize they required you to disassemble the marker to install them. I've cut a couple but I duplicated the twistlock notch to lock it in place, so you could pull it out any time you wanted to, and oring grooves to keep the thing in place like I wanted and still be removable. Mine were quite a bit more complex (unnecessarily so it appears).

Now, I'm NOT a master machinist, but it took me considerably longer than an hour to make mine, especially the first one. Stainless cuts considerably slower than aluminum though, so that accounts for a good deal of the discrepancy

[FARMER00]

I went back and looked at Doc's adapters, and I was slightly confused about their configuration. I didn't realize they required you to disassemble the marker to install them. I've cut a couple but I duplicated the twistlock notch to lock it in place, so you could pull it out any time you wanted to, and oring grooves to keep the thing in place like I wanted and still be removable. Mine were quite a bit more complex (unnecessarily so it appears).

Now, I'm NOT a master machinist, but it took me considerably longer than an hour to make mine, especially the first one. Stainless cuts considerably slower than aluminum though, so that accounts for a good deal of the discrepancy

yes i completly agree about the ss vs. aluminum and the time consuming




ps. anyone have a 15/16unf-20(autococker) or a 7/8unf-20(a5) tap i can have or borrow thanks i still cant find mine

[CoolHand]

yes i completly agree about the ss vs. aluminum and the time consuming




ps. anyone have a 15/16unf-20(autococker) or a 7/8unf-20(a5) tap i can have or borrow thanks i still cant find mine

You can buy them from MSC for about $40 + shipping.

http://www1.mscdirect.com/cgi/nnsrhm

If you're going to have it anodized, you'll want to get an H5 or H7 oversize. If you're going to use it as-is, I'd use the H3.

Also, some barrels require you to open up the minor diameter 10-15 thou from what the tap really wants. I have no idea why, they just don't cut the threads deep enough on some barrels. I've found J&J's, a Whitewolf freak back, one SP AA, and even a DYE Stainless that was oversize. A single barrel from all of the above mentioned barrels (at one time or another) would not go into a tapped hole until I opened up the minor diameter about 15 thou (and it was right on to start with).

[Doc Nickel]

Also I do have an opinion on how AGD would increase sales. Advertizment[.]

-AGD does advertise. But they advertise at a level commesurate with their production volume.

Places like NPS and Smart Parts spend literally $100,000 a month on advertising alone. A single color full-page ad in a magazine can cost as much as $1,800- for one month.

But they also do millions per month in business. Tens of thousands of parts, thousands of guns, hundreds of thousands of small parts.

AGD doesn't. They sell however many they sell, which is probably right about the same number they make in a month, give or take. Whatever the level is, it's far below that of either SP or NPS.

It doesn't make sense to spend $50,000 in advertising to sell $60,000 in product... especially if your production likes aren't geared up to handle that kind of volume.

It would be stupid of me, with about a dozen barrel adapters still on the shelf, to blow $1,800 to put a color ad in a magazine to sell them. First, selling what I have wouldn't come anywhere near covering the cost of the ad even if I tripled the price, and if I got more demand than I had inventory for and couldn't fill the orders, it would end up being a waste of that ad money.

After it is all said and done would it not be easier to just pick up a used ULE.

-Now don't be draggin' on the kid. There's a lot to be said for making your own parts, even if the same thing or even a better one is already available.

I went back and looked at Doc's adapters, and I was slightly confused about their configuration. I didn't realize they required you to disassemble the marker to install them.

-That's correct. They're pinned in place by the barrel-locking pin, a feature I used so that the body wouldn't twist when you try to unscrew the barrel, and it also can't shift in the twist-lock groove, which would jam it from feeding.

Mine also have three such holes, so the same adapter can fit in right hand, left hand, and even centerfeed and Sydarm bodies.

Stainless cuts considerably slower than aluminum though, so that accounts for a good deal of the discrepancy

That's a good portion of it. My lathe is a tad underpowered for trying to push a 5/8" drill through stainless, so I typically have to make several passes; centerdrill, then 3/16", then 3/8", 1/2", and then 5/8". I made a small handful a year or two ago to cover orders while the shop was making more, and I snuck over to the college machine shop- the teach there loves me - and used his one of big 7.5HP 15" swing Colchesters with a collet closer.

I used a carriage stop and a homebrew collet stop that I also made while I was there, in conjunction with the collet closer, and was able to face something like 20 pieces to +/- .002" in about half an hour. (Not counting setup time, nor building the collet stop.)

After that, using the same collet setup, I was able to centerdrill all 20 (took about 10 minutes) pilot drill with a 3/16" (took close to an hour, but I had to resharpen the drill about four times, and the flood coolant wasn't cooperating.

Then, with the coolant sorted out, and with a freshly-sharpened 5/8" MT3 drill, I was able to punch them all the way through in one pass. I still had to stop and resharpen the drill at least once, and each piece still took two or three minutes each for a full cycle, but it beat my little lathes all hollow.

I finished up all the precision work back at the shop.

FARMER00: Snag yourself a short bar of 303, 304 or 316 stainless and try it again. You'll see how much of a difference there is.

I could have saved time and money having my adapters made from aluminum, but I wanted quality pieces that would last as long as the gun itself. I'm very happy with how they came out- and none of the 300+ users have complained yet- I just wish they'd sold better.

Doc.

[SCpoloRicker]

Obviously, the smaller custom shops here on AO need to take a good listen to the astute businessmen in this thread.

[turbo chicken]

Wow ... I just got a refresher from a project managment class i took a while ago ...

Did i see Doc say that he might do another run ?

[CoolHand]

. . . . . That's a good portion of it. My lathe is a tad underpowered for trying to push a 5/8" drill through stainless, so I typically have to make several passes; centerdrill, then 3/16", then 3/8", 1/2", and then 5/8". I made a small handful a year or two ago to cover orders while the shop was making more, and I snuck over to the college machine shop- the teach there loves me - and used his one of big 7.5HP 15" swing Colchesters with a collet closer.. . . . Doc.

How'd you like that Colchester? I've been eyeing a 15" swing Clausing, but I've not used one before.

It looks like it's hell for stout, but I have no idea whether they have any irritating little nuances in their operation.

[Doc Nickel]

How'd you like that Colchester? I've been eyeing a 15" swing Clausing, but I've not used one before.

It looks like it's hell for stout, but I have no idea whether they have any irritating little nuances in their operation.

-I'd kill and help hide the body for one.

I mean, it's horribly oversized for 99% of what I do, and my shop ain't all that big, but there's times when that sheer power and rigidity sure do come in handy.

The college machines are true Clausing Colchesters, dating back to probably the late 70s or early 80s. They're college machines, and thus have had a great deal of hard use, but the shop teach is a true whiz with machines, and keeps 'em in fine shape.

They're truly massive for their size, and rigid as an anvil. I love the features and power. Grizzly has one that's basically identical that I'd love to have, but there's just no way I could justify that price. It's so huge that I'd only use the damn thing two or three times a year- the rest of the time my comparatively tiny 10" Logan does just fine. (You don't need seven horsepower and 3-phase power to turn a delrin 'Cocker bolt, y'know. )

Doc.

[slade]

They're truly massive for their size, and rigid as an anvil. I love the features and power. Grizzly has one that's basically identical that I'd love to have, but there's just no way I could justify that price.

thats massive? you need to spend more time around CNC machines

[CoolHand]

thats massive? you need to spend more time around CNC machines

Coming from a 10" Logan, that IS massive.

I've got a 12" Logan right now. She's a good old girl, but she's getting pretty long in the tooth, AND given my recent incident at the hands of my Bridgeport, every machine is getting an EStop, and I cannot do that on a lathe with a threaded spindle mount. THAT would be even worse than getting wound up in one, hit the EStop then watch helplessly as the chuck unscrews and runs away to bash someone else. Nope, my new machine is going to have a camlock spindle or nothing at all.

I've got my eye on a Clausing for a little over half of what the green bear wants for his. For the same money as the Clausing, I can also get a brand new 13" swing Sharp.

Tough call.

[Doc Nickel]

thats massive? you need to spend more time around CNC machines

-Keep in mind I'm talking about home-shop and hobbyist sized lathes. My Logan is "huge" compared to the average hobby machinists 9" by 20" JET or Harbor Freight lathe, which themselves dwarf the Unimat and Sherline lathes.

The CNC stuff you have in mind might be dwarfed by an old Cincinnatti rail-wheel lathe (two heads and carriages, 12-foot swing, 15-foot bed) which would itself be dwarfed by the monster lathes used to turn Iowa-class rifles at Rock Island Arsenal.

You know it's a big machine when there's two flights of stairs leading to the top of the carriage.

There's always somebody out there with a bigger tool. (Story of my life. )

I've got my eye on a Clausing for a little over half of what the green bear wants for his. For the same money as the Clausing, I can also get a brand new 13" swing Sharp.

-I missed getting a 14" South Bend, with the (apparently troublesome) vari-drive replaced with a 3HP 3-phase and a digital VFD (variable frequency drive) all in top-notch shape, and local (!) because I didn't have the $3,000 on hand.

I keep waiting for another deal like that to wander my way, but this is Alaska; big tools are expensive, rare, and in demand. If I ever break down and decode I gotta have a new, bigger lathe right now, I'd probably end up with one of Grizzly's 13" by 40" models. I'm happy with my Griz mill (Bridgeport clone) and a local friend has a 13.5x40 that's actually pretty darn nice for the $3000 it cost. It's smooth, powerful, and rigid.

Doc.

[MANN]

yes i completly agree about the ss vs. aluminum and the time consuming




ps. anyone have a 15/16unf-20(autococker) or a 7/8unf-20(a5) tap i can have or borrow thanks i still cant find mine

did you ever finish your adaptor?? how did it turn out??