Why is the Tippmann C3 so big?

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  • Skoad
    Registered User
    • Feb 2002
    • 3265

    #1

    Why is the Tippmann C3 so big?

    I found an animation of how the C3 supposedly works. I don't understand why its so bulky. I originally figured its because there needs to be a certain size combustion chamber for the propane/air mixture - enough to fire a pball 300fps....but a smaller chamber would just increase the energy from the ignition I would think. Well of course theres probably a minimum limit to how much gas/air is needed to reach 300fps even if chamber is small.

    Anywho took this off of pbnation, not sure if the animation is to scale.


    Step 1: What happens with the back pump stroke.
    When you pump the handle back, you do a few things. Of course you're pulling the bolt back to chamber a ball! That's obvious. But there are 2 other things.
    One being the ventilation of excess gas. The propane/air mixture that doesn't get used needs to be vented out.
    The other being the brass piston in the front. It is a "switch" just as the autococker 4-way is a "switch." When the handle pushes in this tiny brass piston allows a tiny amount of propane to flow through a low-pressure hose. This hose is routed to *somewhere* in the back of the gun (see, that's why the above animation isn't 100%).

    Step 2: Next what happens with the forward pump stroke.
    From here you will, again get obvious out of the way, finish chambering a single paintball. Now on to more unobvious detail.
    On the giant piston connected to the pump rod there are 2 U-rings. "Flappers." These are sucking in the air on the return pump motion, for the mixture of propane and air. Proper mixture, iirc, of 1:5 ratio.

    Step 3: Finally, when you pull the trigger...
    As soon as you pull the trigger, underneath the combustion chamber is essentially a spark plug. A tiny spark will ignite the propane. Upon ignition the pressure will build drastically (honestly a tiny explosion) and start to push back the REAR piston. Once back far enough the expanding gases will vent out, through the bolt, and propell the paintball out the barrel. This is why the spring tension regulates velocity, the stiffer the spring, the smaller the amount of gas that is allowed to exhaust. And of course not all the gas exhausts, which is why the step 1 process is required.

    This also explains why the barrel needed to be a proprietary design, it HAD to be made of the composite material.

    I'll admit that I was one of the many who didn't quite understand the exact working function of the C3. After talking to a couple people and going over the schematics some more it began to take shape. I had originally envisioned the large dual-ringed piston to be shoved forward to act as a 'mini-compressor' of sorts. But as soon as I found out that the pump handle is basically connected to the piston it made a whole other picture for me.
  • VFX_Fenix
    -=Bishop=-
    • Sep 2004
    • 1052

    #2
    If I had to make a guess I'd say it was an issue of them using the most conveniently sized chamber they could.

    Comment

    • jenarelJAM
      Club Coordinator
      • Dec 2004
      • 1611

      #3
      I would guess that they need a certain volume in the "explosion chamber", and instead of making the tube longer(and therefore a longer pump stroke), they made the cylinder's radius greater, to increase volume that way. Its girth would also explain why the C3 is known to have a heavy pump stroke.
      Just a guess, I've never handled, or even seen a C3.

      Edit: Whoops, misunderstood your question, I just repeated what you said...
      I would guess that they need move volume because it doesn't run off of compressed air. They need to get the oxygen to produce the combustion reaction somewhere, and since the energy source is propane instead of compressed air, the only way to get it is through venting new air in. They can stick in as much propane as they want, but the oxygen is the limiting reactant in the reaction, so they need a certain amount of open volume to get enough of a reaction to increase the pressure to push the paintball out the barrel at 300 fps. (phew).
      you know you play this game too much when the neighbors stop fixing their broken windows...
      :shooting: :cuss:

      Comment

      • hs2000

        #4
        You'd have to cram more air into the chamber to get an equally large explosion if the chamber was smaller. Because the pump stroke pushes air into the chamber, this would mean that the pump stroke would get even harder.

        But I'm most likly wrong, All I know is if Tippmann could make it smaller, I am sure they would have.

        Comment

        • MoeMag
          Still here.
          • Dec 2005
          • 1821

          #5

          Comment

          • ta2maki
            Registered User

            • Oct 2004
            • 159

            #6
            I think it does use the exhaust gas to propel the ball. I have a c3 and if you put your hand over the muzzle and dry fire, the air coming out is warm and damp.

            Comment

            • Skoad
              Registered User
              • Feb 2002
              • 3265

              #7
              I guess its just to get the right volume of air for the mixture for why the chamber is so big.


              Also I don't necessarily think that 'if tippmann could have made it smaller they would have', Tippmann's guns are fairly robust, I think partially to their cast metal construction and the needs for mass production. Part of me thinks they made it 'like this' just to avoid a bigger risk rather than to hone the technology.

              I don't know, it just seems to me this could be done in a much smaller package.

              Comment

              • AGD
                The man from AGD

                • Oct 2000
                • 5916

                #8
                Turn off the lights and fire the gun... flame comes out the end.....

                AGD
                sigpic

                Comment

                • don miguel
                  the legend
                  • Sep 2006
                  • 1141

                  #9
                  I was talking to a ref today about the same thing... he siad they arent alowes a BPS because they will melt bunkers. Crazy or true?

                  Comment

                  • Skoad
                    Registered User
                    • Feb 2002
                    • 3265

                    #10
                    Originally posted by don miguel
                    I was talking to a ref today about the same thing... he siad they arent alowes a BPS because they will melt bunkers. Crazy or true?

                    ...........................

                    Comment

                    • jenarelJAM
                      Club Coordinator
                      • Dec 2004
                      • 1611

                      #11
                      Originally posted by AGD
                      Turn off the lights and fire the gun... flame comes out the end.....

                      AGD
                      I've never known you to joke, at least not without a smiley, so I'm going to assume you're serious...

                      That's so cool!
                      you know you play this game too much when the neighbors stop fixing their broken windows...
                      :shooting: :cuss:

                      Comment

                      • RRfireblade

                        • Jun 2002
                        • 5103

                        #12
                        It's a very light/weak flame. You can put your hand right against the barrel and feel very little heat so I doubt seriously it would melt a bunker.
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                        Comment

                        • A-Tach-One
                          I'm done!!!!

                          • Mar 2005
                          • 2204

                          #13
                          Originally posted by don miguel
                          I was talking to a ref today about the same thing... he siad they arent alowes a BPS because they will melt bunkers. Crazy or true?
                          Hmm, stick a marshmellow on the end of the barrel and see what you come up with.

                          Comment

                          • iambored
                            I dare YOU to think!
                            • Jul 2006
                            • 463

                            #14
                            Originally posted by A-Tach-One
                            Hmm, stick a marshmellow on the end of the barrel and see what you come up with.
                            ever heard the rumor off the guy smoking with a c3 in his hands?
                            It blew up
                            He got 2nd burns
                            He doesn't like pump anymore

                            Comment

                            • hs2000

                              #15
                              ^don't joke like that, it gives the C3 a bad name, while it's nott a great gun, it is safe. It's safer then the 4500 psi bombs that most people carry around. Every think of the energy stored in one of those?

                              Comment

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