Alright Paintballgear.com...I'm calling you on this one!

[Restola]

last time i placed an order with pbgear.com they charged my credit card 11 times for a little over $1500. my order totalled less than $200.

it was a blast waiting for all the denied charges to clear off my credit card before i could use it...

oh and my favorite part was how they refused to ship it becuase the 5,6,7,8,9,10, and 11th time they charged my card it was denied!

[gimp]

Paintballgear ends up punishing themselves with their poor customer service. I ordered something, and recieved almost 400 dollars worth of extra equipment with my order. None of it was on the bill. Granted, it took 3 weeks longer than it was supposed to, I'm not gonna complain. Here's the funny part, I sent them like, 5 emails saying that they sent me all this stuff. I gave them my order number and everything. No response. After a while, I stopped trying to contact them and kept the stuff.

[thecavemankevin]

gimp, i have herd several stories similar to yours. One guy bought a pfhr mag and got a pfhl, and he was a little upset. So he contacted them and they said that there was nothing they could do. Then a few days latter out of nowhere came two more packages. One had a pfhr mag and the other had a bunch of misc. parts for mags and cockers.

So it seems like you are taking a role of the dice when you order form them.





Cphilip, I am still interested in purchasing that cover from you if you want to sell it.

[soldur]

paintballgear.com is a fine place to do business. it just requires a small degree of common sense when buying anything online. this always works for me. i go to the site and put everything that i want on the shopping cart and i make sure that i have all of the product numbers. then i call them on their 800 number and talk to them for free and order everything over the phone and make sure that it is all in stock and that everything is alright with my order.
here is what happened on my last order from them

i was buying an automag for $279 and when i was talking with the guy on the phone adn i told him the number on the item he told me that there was another automag setup that came with a better barrel for the same price. and you know what? it was a much better deal and he saved me a nice amount of money. if i had ordered online and not called i would have missed out on a good deal. just letting you know.

[Additude]

Originally posted by cphilip

Ok so here was a good example of a company that is perhaps understaffed to handle an online business to the point that they would not check their emails on Monday morning knowing they had not cleared them all before they left on Friday. Just in case one of their customers had notified them of a problem that they then could avoid. Now remember I placed the order at 3:26PM their time. I notified them at 3:27 and and again at 3:30 of my mistake. They close at 6:00 so they say so lets assume they drop everything and go home then. And I suppose they don't work on the weekend at all (I guess?). So perhaps placing an order on a Friday afternoon turned out to be a mitigating circumstance in their favor. I'll give em that.

Like I said I had bought from them before with good results. But then again each of those times I was a perfect customer and didn't make a mistake. But this time I did. And tried to correct it but it seems the way they suggest has a big hole in it all because they haad no policy or method to red flag a problem in this area. So in this case two wrongs makes a right.

Ok...some have reported problems even after using the phone. Some have said that was my problem. I should have called.

The fact remains, that you attempted to email them, did not receive a response back by email, yet still decided not to take the time or effort to make not just a phone call, but a toll free phone call on their dime. Do not fail to ignore the fact that you never received a response from them by email. You have no idea if they had technical problems, if there were delays in internet traffic with email or that they didn't have a chance to read through who knows how many emails they receive daily.

You do not even know if your order was pulled and boxed ready to ship on Friday afternoon and was waiting for UPS to get there and pick it up before 9 AM on Monday. UPS will stop by a business 2 or 3 times daily to pickup if there is a need.

Fact is all my communication right now becauseI used email is documented. One small area actualy hurts my argument when I was speculating on why I had chosen the wrongh item but no matter it turned out to be a false lead. I still do not know why it came up. So I am chalking it up to just a bone head distracted mistake on my part. Now where would I be if this problem presisted and I had phoned and they still sent me the wrong thing after me asking them to correct my mistake?

At least you would have confirmation that someone knew about your placing the order incorrectly. I'm not saying it may still not be a problem, but chances are they would have a better chance of helping you out and correcting the situation.

Not that it would have happened but just suppose it did.

Suppose, suppose what? Lets suppose you didn't mess up the order to begin with.

Some of the others say it did to them. Where would I be?

Some of the others say it hasn't happened to them also. Where would you be if you had placed the order correctly? Probably not here looking for sympathy.

Just like the ones above. Just a story no documentation. So I should think people who take the tactic that the phone is better (somehow but the logic excapes me) than the written word I just do not understand.

So, you can't understand the difference between talking directly to a person and explaining your situation to them one on one, or sending an email? Give me a break. Then again, maybe you don't know the difference.
Here, let this situation be a lesson to you.

I have many times been confronted with people in denial about something they claim I never told them. But because I did it by email and printed it out and filed it they are quickly eating their words. Just an example why I think getting things in writing, whenever possible, is superior to phone conversations that some of you seem to think is the solution to all problems.

We have all been confronted this way, on the phone, by email, in person, behind our backs, etc. What makes this situation special? Because they never heard you. They have to hear what you have to say to help you.

Now another point I was trying to make from this. Too many online retailers try to start up a business thinking the front end of getting the orders is all there is to it. Fact is sometimes people make a mistake. And they will need to communicate that to you. Is it so hard to check your email BEFORE you start shipping that day? Should you have a separate email addy for trouble orders? Perhaps! Not a bad idea right? I mean its up to them to tell me the customer what to do to fix my problem. And they did. And I followed it. To no avail!

Have you ever owned or operated a small business before? Do you have knowledge of operating a small business on the internet? Have you ever managed several employees at one time? Are you familiar with order processing in a warehouse?
Yea, some people make mistakes, that's only human. But don't you think it's a little redicilous to expect a company to take orders online and then search their emails to confirm that the customer who placed the order didn't send an email requesting a change because they made a mistake? How time consuming is that? These people have a business to run, day in and day out. Weeks, months and years on end. If you were a business person you would understand why your request is expecting to much.

Now from the order confirmation. They have the following instructions on it. I am copying and pasting it exactly except for bolding the important part:

Our Customer Service hours are 10:00am - 6:00pm Monday thru Friday Central Standard Time. Please direct any questions regarding your order to our office at 888-679-4327. We can also be reached via email at [email protected].
Again, thank you for using PaintballGear.com as
your source for supplies.

And your point is? What they didn't say was, "Call 888-679-4327 or email us at [email protected]". It's not either/or, it's not one or the other, either call us or email us. It's, "Call us at this number, We can also be reached by email".
You didn't elect to call them when they didn't respond to you by email. That was your decision, your forfiet.

Now another point is how the only response I got from them was. Here it is:

"The order you were sent does have the 47-51 cover in
it. Most likely your order was processed before we
got a chance to recieve your email on Monday so the
change could not be made. If you need to exchange it
please call customer service @ 888.679.4327 and get a
return authorization number.

Now remember the emails I sent were on Friday at 3:30 so they had 2 and a half hours of their listed work hours to get them that day and then on Monday (again we are assuming they don't do any of this after 6pm on Friday and before 10 am on Monday). The Order confirmation seems to have been sent to me at 6:47 PM on Monday. So they had all of that day to read the emails I sent. So lets say then they had a little over 9 working hours to read their email. Part of one working day and all of the next. That was kind of my point in being a bit miffed about it failing to rectify my mistake.

Yes, and you figure that it's not possible for them to receive your order at 3:30 PM, pull it and box it, label it, get it ready to ship and UPS is there first thing in the moning on Monday and takes it.

My scenerio says you only gave them 2 1/2 hours on a Friday afternoon to fix your problem.

So what I was thinking here is if your customer told you after the fact they had tried on Friday to correct the mistake what would you do? Me? I would go into my emails and see if they were telling the truth. And if they were I would have responded something like this:

Phil,

Sorry but we failed to check our emails and correct your problem for you. Lets work something out. I'll meet you half way. Send us back the one you have as soon as you get it and when I reieve it I will send out the one you wanted at no extra shipping charge. Since we both were in error I think its fair we share the cost of fixing it. Here is an RMA # for you to use if you want to do that. Mark it on the package and put a note in as to which one you need to remind us of the situation.

Thanks for your business.

How about this instead.

Dear Phil,

I am sorry, but we were not able to intercept your incorrectly submitted order prior to it being processed and shipped. Being as all orders are expedited as quickly as possible, using email is not always the fastest way to communicate to revise or change submitted orders. As always, in these situations, the quickest and fastest way to communicate with us is by use of our toll fee number.

We would be happy to exchange the item for you at no charge plus shipping costs.

If you are in a hurry, you can submit another order on line for the correct item, which will ship immediately and you can use this RMA#123456 to return the item and we will credit your account upon receipt of the incorrect item.

Or you can use the same RMA# to send the incorrect item back and upon receipt we will ship you the replacement item plus shipping.

Please let us know which you would prefer and please remember that because of delays in sending emails through the internet and that our emails are only checked periodically throughout the day, that it is best to call if you expect you'll need immediate assistance.

Thanks!

Joe Blow[/i]


Wouldn't that simple gesture have been enough? For me it might. Any comments on that?

[cphilip]

Very good response Attitude! However you do seem to want to take some stuff out of context but I will ignore those. I know what you meant to say.

Let me take a few points in general and respond to them:


No! One of my main points!!! exactly! I do not know when the actualy boxed it. I know they didn't communicate and I did. I know they confirmed they boxed it late after their own work hours late on Monday. Thats all I know. Since they never told me anything different. And still won't. Is that my fault too? So the customer is always wrong until he can PROVE he is right. Where has it all gone these days? I just must be from a different planet or something.

I placed the order just as I left the office at 4:27 my time and the two emails to correct it as well. They said to use email not me. I felt and still feel it was good to leave them something on it that they could do at their own leasure. They do clearly give it as an option however much you may chose to argue it wasn't ment that way. In both of those emails I asked for them to respond and they did not. They never to this point have confirmed or denied they got them. So I have to "assume" at this point since they will not comunicate. Sounds familiar doesn't it? I cannot correctly acertain the facts if someone doesn't communicate. Now in your senario you to had to assume as well didn't you? And your assumptions are all favorable to the vendor. But I like it! It shows the other possibilities which I could have chosen to assume and alluded too earlier. But now I totaly disagree that checking your email takes less time than answering the phone. It does not. It is more efficent. You can do it at you leasure. But if you give it as an option you should at least check it.



Sympathy? Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! You do not know me do you? I could give a rats behind for any sympathy. There is a logic behind this posting I hope eventualy you will see. You can save that for someone who needs it. A point is being made. If the point angers you then perhaps its a touchy subject that you should explain to us as to why. I would like to know where your hostility comes from. It might help to make this point and counterpoint more productive. If you are not into semantic discussions then you probably do not want to play with this one anymore. It's up to you.

Fact remains they did hear me! They responded once and then refuse to again so far again. They have ignored all but the one of them. They were all nice. So why Figure that out. I dunno...I don't like to suppose but when not given any facts I am left with only that.


OK so you want to know what my life experiences are then huh? OK the answer to all but running an internet online business is YES! I have managed as many as 20 people at a time. Do inventory of large numbers of items. Warehousing? You bet I got one now full of hazarodus chemicals. I even drive the darn forklift! And teach that!! I even operate a database retreival system that gives me feedback so I know it is possible to do what I am asking. If its not don't start up the business until it is! I also do a lot of online business and I can give you several companies to point to who can and do monitor and respond to their customers well within 2 and a half hours...easily. So it can be done and is done. They build a good reputation for customer service. Because of how they fix the problems not primarily for the many sales that go off without a hitch.


Interesting that the customer in your opinion forfiets anything by chosing to use one of the recommended methods. I do not anywhere agree with that. You contradict yourself later by suggesting that they should have said "Calling us is the prefered method". YES! They could have said that but they didn't!!. In fact I like your response from them fine. They could have done exactly as you said and it would have been a better response to the situation. But they didn't. So even you admit their response was not entirely helpful to fix the situation or you would not suggest another one would you?

Eventualy it will become clear this is more about customer service and internet business than it is about my little incident. That was just the catalist and example that fell into my lap to air out some of my frustrations about it. PBG just happened to provide the fodder. Poor fella's.


And in this case my wallet will do the talking. Someone wants to get picky with me and not tolerate me making a mistake and asking for it to be corrected...nicely...multiple times...well they don't want me as a customer anyway. So they can do without my money. No hard feelings just the way it is.


Ok so common guys tell me I am all wet and to shut up then. What say you? At least two or three of you are willing to take the other side. I respect that.

[TheBigRaguPB4L]

first off, i always use the phone. it does seem quicker and in past experiences, it has resulted in much smoother transactions. the 3 time i have used online, all resulted in me getting the wrong item, or not getting them at all, one of those happened to be AGD(but it was the superbole, we all know what happened there), so it was not there fault. anywho, whenever dealing with online companies, i find the number and call them up. most of the times, the sales reps. are really nice and helpful and i am pleased.

now, as for PBgear, i currently do not get anything from them. the 2-4 times i have ordered from them, i have gotten nothing but aggrivation. it's just not worth it. they do have terrible customer service. they're good if they don't mess up your order, but if they do, forget about it. i feel they're like insurance companies, they put you off for so long hoping that you would give up and they profit from sending you less than what was expected or so forth.

i will say, i had to ship something back to them one time and i payed to ship it out. but i never payed for them to ship it back to me. they never even suggested that. they gave me the RA and i sent out. they sent back about 2 weeks later, to my dismay, but still at no charge. i kept up on all my credit card bills so i know that i was not charged. i don't know where you got you would have to pay for the second shipping to yourself. i know they didn't charge me.

now, you say you run your own business and yadda yadda yadda. you know that people can run a large internet business and still have excelent customer service. i agree with this in totallity. can you honestly say that you run this business without any usatisfied customers? i mean this in no disrespect, but you sir are a liar. there is no business on this earth that can possibly have each and every transaction satisfactory to the consumer. it's impossible. everyone will always have something to gripe about and complain about. that's just the way it goes. AGD is the best customer service paintball company out there. even people that dislike AGD will admit to that. but there are people that go unsatisfied with there dealings with AGD. it's going to happen to everybody. saying that you can run a business without such incidents is just ludicrous.

now, i don't know how many orders they get daily and how many emails they get trying to rectify mis-ordered items, but i agree with cphillip. if they have an overwhelming number of emails with similar situations to this, then they should state so on their website. something like:
we can be contacted by email, but for more efficent service, give us a call at 1-800-whatever. emails get checked periodically and over the phone transactions will result in quicker service. something as such, i believe, would be efficient. now they don't do this as to the overwhelming number of calls they would have to take. obviously mass emails is easier to manage than the same number of phone calls. but being that it is not stated, situations like this occur.

in all reality, is it really going to matter? doubtful. do you think it's really going to bother them that one person no longer orders from them. if they have that many orders and emails that they can't manage, one unsatisfied customer isn't going to mean a damn to them. i realize this is a bad way to run a business, but they're making they're money, what do they care? i'm sure the majority of there sales go out without to many major problems. otherwise, i doubt they would still exist.

i find that people find their internet companies and have good experiences. different people can go to the same company and have nothing but heartache. to me it just seems the luck of the draw. you have to find the company that gives you the best service. my loyalty is with AGD(obviously) and 888paintball. that's the only 2 sites i'll order from. everything else i go to my local store. sometimes, i'll try new sites(new to me anyways) and i'll usually not order from them anymore. it's just easier to stick with the company that causes me no problems.

cphillip:i think the best thing to do is sell the cover. go somewhere else to get the one you need. i'm ssure you can find someone to buy it. you've had a few offers on this thread alone. of course tell of your experiences. people should know. it's up to them to take from it as they deem fit. obviously people are going to have different opinions, but that's life. just move on. save yourself the stress.

[cphilip]

Good input! Not sure I was following all of it but I liked it what I did.

Actually Big, I have not recieved the cover yet. But one of our members here asked to buy it and instead I just gave him the cover (assuming he sends me his mailing addy like I asked). It was never about the cover...

[thecavemankevin]

I still must say i agree with cphil on this. It comes down to customer service. Which they seem to have a lack of (not just in cphil's case).

Yes, he made a mistake, and perhaps it could have been cleared up with a phone call rather than email. However, they emailed him, which would lead you to believe that they like using email as a form of communication. They didn't call him to tell him his order was received.

Nevertheless, if you like using them even though they are over priced and seem to have unstable customer service, keep on using them. Perhaps you will never have a problem. But when you do, don?t come crying to us because you have been warned!

[Additude]

Originally posted by thecavemankevin

Nevertheless, if you like using them even though they are over priced and seem to have unstable customer service, keep on using them. Perhaps you will never have a problem. But when you do, don?t come crying to us because you have been warned!

First off, I am not posting about PBG. I am posting about the situation. The sequence of events. We could be discussing "Grandmas Cookie Heaven On Line Web Site" for all I care. I don't really care if it was PBG or any other on line paintball supplier.

Trust me, I won't be comming here to pout over a problem I have about ordering paintball gear unless I come here with a warning to all because someone tried to intentionally rip me off and I don't want to see others get hurt. I remind you, I said inetntionally try to rip me off. I won't come here with accuasations.

I accept responsibility for my actions. In this case, I would have bit the bullet and accepted the fact that I made the mistake and dealt with it accordingly. I would have asked to send the wrong item back and replace it at my expense. The heck with Customer Service at this point, it was my fault. If I offered to fix my problem at my expense because it was my fault and they told me they would pick up the shipping or whatever, then I call that customer service. Anything less is just fair.

All this trying to place blame based on an email is nothing more than a cop out. Using an arguement in the name of Customer Service is also just a cop out.

That's what seperates the Men from the Boys. Being able to accept the full responsibility for your actions and having the maturity to resolve the issue amicably based on that acceptance.

Crying Boo-Boo because they didn't read my email in time to fix my mistake is not accepting responsibility, any way you slice it.

So no, your not going to listen to me come here and cry foul when I have a problem. You haven't yet and your not going to. I don't need sympathy. Just in case you were wondering, I've had many a problem with on-line orders. Not just PBG and not just paintball. It happens, the worlds not perect, when they mess up, they fix it, when I mess up, I fix it. It's just that simple.

[Additude]

Originally posted by cphilip
Very good response Attitude! However you do seem to want to take some stuff out of context but I will ignore those.

In no way am I sticking up for PBG. If they made mistakes then so be it. They have to deal with it and they should resolve the issues fairly.

No one walks without guilt. No one is perfect. We all make mistakes. Some more than others. But just because a mistake happens dosen't mean someone who has made mistakes in the past is automatically guilty.

Who knows, maybe this situation could have been handled differently, maybe it couldn't have been. Maybe the timing was off, then again, maybe it wasn't. Who the heck really knows? There are just too many variables to substantiate the alleged facts. There are always two sides to every story. For every side, there is another.

But I remind you, the two issues that are fact and are absolute and can be substantiated, are the fact that an email was sent to which a reply was never confirmed and if that order had been properly placed, none of this would have been an issue. Not even the first fact, respectfully.

I'm even confident that Judge Judy would have resolved to the same conclusion ;-) Just having a little phun there.....hehehehe

[hitech]

Originally posted by TheBigRaguPB4L
do you think it's really going to bother them that one person no longer orders from them.

There will be more than one. After reading the various experences in this thread I won't order from them either.