Where does responsibility ultimately fall?

[Chronobreak]

Well, i was thinking the other day and after talking to some manufacturers, and looking over some equipment used for the sport, and its intended rough usage i am wondering where does the responsibility of making a "safe product" lie ?

say for example you have a tank...that tank meets certain standards and has safety features(though if those are proper measures could be for another thread)

It seems AGD is the only company that made, or to this day makes a gun that will handle 3k psi in the event of a reg failure, and also has a few redundant safety features.

Does responsibility lie with consumers when picking the correct macro or fittings for a gun, or the type of reg to use.

should electronic/multi mode guns(anything but semi) guns come with barrel plugs(shouldnt they have well built sleeves?

should equipment come from manufacturers at unsafe and illegal fps(340+)

should there be more safety standards on what is and isnt acceptable?


my thoughts are a little scattered so i may add to this original post or swap things around as i think of other things etc.

is sub par equipment acceptable at any level of the sport, expecialy when it can be a safety hazard? or does the responsibilty ultimately lie with the informed consumer(which seems to be lacking these days)

[turbo chicken]

a lawyer could make a case wither way ... and there is an argument for each side ... an a counter response for the other side for each comment you make .... so ill give my opinion strictly about paintball ... cause i could go on a good rant about consumer/mfgr responsibilities in general.

I say it is the consumer ... you are responsible for your safety and the safety of others around you. Especially in paintball.

Yes an uninformed consumer is dangerous ... but still responsible for their actions

I'd say the companies obligation ends with warnings and instructions on how to properly use the equipment and yes sending them to where they operate safely out of the box.

but even then an ill informed consumer can still endanger themselves and others safety by not reading those instructions and using included safety devices/constraints

[Draken]

Well, i was thinking the other day and after talking to some manufacturers, and looking over some equipment used for the sport, and its intended rough usage i am wondering where does the responsibility of making a "safe product" lie ?

say for example you have a tank...that tank meets certain standards and has safety features(though if those are proper measures could be for another thread)

It seems AGD is the only company that made, or to this day makes a gun that will handle 3k psi in the event of a reg failure, and also has a few redundant safety features.

Does responsibility lie with consumers when picking the correct macro or fittings for a gun, or the type of reg to use.

should electronic/multi mode guns(anything but semi) guns come with barrel plugs(shouldnt they have well built sleeves?

should equipment come from manufacturers at unsafe and illegal fps(340+)

should there be more safety standards on what is and isnt acceptable?

my thoughts are a little scattered so i may add to this original post or swap things around as i think of other things etc.

is sub par equipment acceptable at any level of the sport, expecialy when it can be a safety hazard? or does the responsibilty ultimately lie with the informed consumer(which seems to be lacking these days)

Saying its the manufacturers fault is like saying its fords fault that I decided I wanted to see if my car would float so I drove it into the lake...Did Ford tell me to do that with their car? No. Should I take the time to RTFM? Yes...

Trying to lay the blame on the manufacturer is VERY childish and should not be done...

Guess what I'm trying to say is it is your own responsibility for the actions you take, if it is taking a marker out of the box and shooting someone before taking it to a chrono to checking your lens on your mask to cracks, to knowing that your Ford doesn't float...what ever it is, YOU are the one that is responsible for YOU.

[turbo chicken]

Saying its the manufacturers fault is like saying its fords fault that I decided I wanted to see if my car would float so I drove it into the lake...Did Ford tell me to do that with their car? No. Should I take the time to RTFM? Yes...

Trying to lay the blame on the manufacturer is VERY childish and should not be done...

Guess what I'm trying to say is it is your own responsibility for the actions you take, if it is taking a marker out of the box and shooting someone before taking it to a chrono to checking your lens on your mask to cracks, to knowing that your Ford doesn't float...what ever it is, YOU are the one that is responsible for YOU.

/end thread

[Chronobreak]

i dont mean to suggest it is the manufacturers fault, however...a certain quality of product should still be maintained.

things that break in half under "NORMAL" conditions or snap off a gun are far from safe and fault of the consumer.

what if a tank manufacturer forgets to put a part in a reg...you get the tank filled and 3k goes into the gun shattering it....whos fault is that?

just playing devils advocate

[Draken]

i dont mean to suggest it is the manufacturers fault, however...a certain quality of product should still be maintained.

things that break in half under "NORMAL" conditions or snap off a gun are far from safe and fault of the consumer.

what if a tank manufacturer forgets to put a part in a reg...you get the tank filled and 3k goes into the gun shattering it....whos fault is that?

just playing devils advocate

For quality control, like what you are talking about right there, is the fault of the manufacture, and pretty much all of them will own up when its their fault, but of course you have to prove its their fault and not user error

[Lohman446]

It seems AGD is the only company that made, or to this day makes a gun that will handle 3k psi in the event of a reg failure, and also has a few redundant safety features.
]

This is overrated. Its probably the only one that will survive it. The wording is that it may not suffer catastrophic failure, a massive leak is not catastrophic failure. I don't care if it destroys the marker, as long as pieces don't go flying.

[Chronobreak]

maybe i should have elft agd and tanks out of my post, since they are the two main ones i have little to no concern about.

my main concern was lack luster quality of product(correct word?)..when making equipment, or not providing proper safety equipment with markers, or other gear.


ie a spyder clone dropped about 2' and the gas thru foregrip snapped and the thing went flying!. if anyone would have had the gun in their hand i have no doubt we would have been calling 911.

also say an electronic gun is in a mode...is a barrel plug a sufficient measure of safety for a multi mode gun? i must STRONGLY disagree that it is.

[warbeak2099]

also say an electronic gun is in a mode...is a barrel plug a sufficient measure of safety for a multi mode gun? i must STRONGLY disagree that it is.

Which is why most fields have disallowed barrel plugs as an acceptable means of barrel blocking and have started mandating the use of condoms/bags.

[RRfireblade]

Comes down to criminal negligence IMO.

Was the manufacturer negligent in a way that an injury or death from said negligence was beyond the reasonable perception of the average user ?

Or was it the users negligence beyond the typical use of the product that caused the injury ?

In todays world , neither really matters.

Fault lays directly with those of the deepest pockets.

[Tunaman]

maybe i should have elft agd and tanks out of my post, since they are the two main ones i have little to no concern about.

my main concern was lack luster quality of product(correct word?)..when making equipment, or not providing proper safety equipment with markers, or other gear.


ie a spyder clone dropped about 2' and the gas thru foregrip snapped and the thing went flying!. if anyone would have had the gun in their hand i have no doubt we would have been calling 911.

also say an electronic gun is in a mode...is a barrel plug a sufficient measure of safety for a multi mode gun? i must STRONGLY disagree that it is.

Definately dont leave tanks out. AGD is the only manufacturer of a tank so safe that if you snap the reg off at the bottle neck it wont go off like a missile. Thank god for flatlines...

[Chronobreak]

Comes down to criminal negligence IMO.

Was the manufacturer negligent in a way that an injury or death from said negligence was beyond the reasonable perception of the average user ?

Or was it the users negligence beyond the typical use of the product that caused the injury ?

In todays world , neither really matters.

Fault lays directly with those of the deepest pockets.

diddnt take long to get to that inevitable answer.

as far as poor quality or poorly made products it seems to come down to the risk of a failure causing aninjury, and what that injury would cost the company vs the profit they make.

im going to attempt to contact a few more companies, however most that i have or have tried to contact about appropriate safety equipment/mesures do not comment or get back to me.

[Chronobreak]

Definately dont leave tanks out. AGD is the only manufacturer of a tank so safe that if you snap the reg off at the bottle neck it wont go off like a missile. Thank god for flatlines...

i think tuna just referenced TK as a god...

--my post was a broad one and i didnt want anyone to focus on one particular product/component as i see them all as a part of a larger complete sytem

[Aggravated Assault]

Which is why most fields have disallowed barrel plugs as an acceptable means of barrel blocking and have started mandating the use of condoms/bags.

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=207860&highlight=barrel+sock+patent

Anyway, I have seen barrel socks fly off after accidental discharges too...

[RRfireblade]

Ah , they should just outlaw paintball all together.