Here we go again another lawsuit.

[Pacifist_Farmer]

Im not sure how this would compare because of the relative complexity differences but imagine if Ford had managed to get a patent on gasoline powered internal combustion engine powering a 4 wheeled carriage and was suing every other car maker for intruding on their patent.....

This is kinda splitting hairs but...

Using your wording we would all be driving diesels, by specifying gasoline you've been too restrictive with your patent.

Now say Ford patented "a four wheeled carriage powered by an exothermic engine", they just captured every possible mode of power created by a power source that releases heat. Now that strikes me as similar to SP's "electropneumatically operated" patent.

[Pneumagger]

This is kinda splitting hairs but...

Using your wording we would all be driving diesels, by specifying gasoline you've been too restrictive with your patent.

Now say Ford patented "a four wheeled carriage powered by an exothermic engine", they just captured every possible mode of power created by a power source that releases heat. Now that strikes me as similar to SP's "electropneumatically operated" patent.

and if the first person to think up the idea many years ago would've done just that.... they'd own all car sales for as long as the patent existed.

[ProblemKinder]

I heard the reason nothing new has come from AGD recently is that Tom has spent the last few years plotting SP's demise...

[thirdturtle]

Is anyone actively challenging SP?

Like most other shady lurker on pb forums, I have piles of 'new' paintball inovations brewing in my brain.

I consulted with a patent attorney about a few of my 'better' ideas... when my own patent research couldn't find any indication of intellectual property.

He told me that I could, with careful wording, probably patent any of my 'ideas'. (Some of these 'ideas' were so general as to be abusurd... like the idea of patenting electricity in the use of paintball guns.)

But he ultimately recomended that I only do it as an intellectual exercise with an eye to learning something of intellectual property process... as securing a patent is far from securing intellectual property rights. A patent, he told me, can be overturned in court at any time... should the opposing position be more compelling than yours.

I have read the SP 'electronic' patent, and the earlier miltiary application. I have read the threats of legal action directed to AKA (although it has been a while)... and it is so vague as to be incomprehensible. Now, it is worth noting that people holding patent do not have to cite their IP (infact, hiding your IP under mysterious headings (to prevent people working around it) is common practice) when sending threats to discontinue activity... but they eventually need to defend it. (The patent fellow told me a story about a man who held a patent on windshild wipers... sent out vague decease warnings to all the major car manufactures based on infringed intellectual property... and then hammered them in court when the couldn't figure out what he was talking about and kept on making wipers.)

I am not an IP lawyer, and am not claiming to understanding the ins and outs of it all... but I would like to see someone politiely decline to bow to the threats of patent infringment relating to mysterious intellectual property.

In my home state, the Rules of Civil procedure dictate that a certain leniency in technical procedure be offered to natural people entering into court and representing themselves... that is the intent of the self-representing individual trumps the technical procedures that they may have made mistakes on.

Is anyone aware of any companies/indiviuals who are saying "You're crazy," to SP?

[paint magnet]

I'll spare the long drawn out circa 2003 argument, but;

Why is it necessarily a bad thing when paintball companies actually act like businesses?

It's a bad thing when it hurts the sport. What if the Nelson Paint Co. decided to patent the use of o-rings in paintball markers back in the 80s?

On the other hand, you have companies like AGD with countless innovations (powerfeed, use of compressed air, etc.) which used their inventions to promote and advance the sport rather than try and make money off of small companies which didn't have enough money to fight it out in court.

And on top of all this, Smart Parts doesn't even have a legitimate claim to their patents. As far as I can remember they've always made decent knock-offs of everyone else's stuff (or bought/stole the rights to it). You didn't see anyone sue them over making the Boss, even though it was a Nelson clone. Or how about a little company called PVI?

[mobsterboy]

its business...
its cut throat, because no one is just going to give you something for free. no ones going to worry about your company or make sure you arent struggling. if you dont sue and protect what you've patented, REGARDLESS of whether or not you first invented it, you wont see any money out of it and you are just setting yourself up for the next person to patent it and sue you. smart parts may not be liked by the paintball world, but they are doing what they have to in order to survive without merging into other companies and sucking the cash out of them like NPS is. GET OVER IT

[thirdturtle]

Public Domaine is an option for small inventors...

... you are just setting yourself up for the next person to patent it and sue you.

Pre-existing 'art' cannot be patented. If you have 'evidence' in the form of documentation (notorized or someother way of giving evidence of time of origin), prototypes, or a well documented inventors note-book that evidences the origin and chronology of your work, it cannot be taken from you.

Ever.

If you are sued for patent infringement, and demonstrate origin of idea predating the filing of a patent, your 'art' is pre-existing. You are safe.

[LiveWire]

i'm so tired of the 'its bussiness' deal, if you're going to be an a**hole don't hide behind excuses. let your crappy morals show their true colors... sheesh








edit...Did you not see the warning. NO swearing. See ya in three days.

[anomoly40]

So who wants to go to the field today to conduct the paintball business? I thought about going but I woke up too late and now it's noon and I really wanted to talk business about a RX-7 that I seen for sale. Of course when I buy it I won't drive it but instead flip it for 2x what it's worth, cause that's business. So some poor shmoe that I beat to it will instead have to pay around 5K for the same car he could have had for 2.5k.

Who got into this sport for business related reasons?

How can you innovate when you choke out the competition?

And what have they Innovated? Usually when they make a new gun, within a few weeks doesn't some small company make some part that makes the gun faster, less air hungry, and longer battery life? If they have so many millions for R&D then they should look into these things before they sling a crap gun onto the market.

Has AGD ever had a better aftermarket company than itself? TK made the greatist innovations in house and the aftermarket was there for egronomic reasons. Did he sue Centerflag for the hyper frame?

Backwards Compatibility. He also made most of his products to fit exsiting guns. Is there machning required for a X-Valve?

Just think if they weren't greedy crackheads then they would make a great product because who knows a product better than the engineers?

Ok I'm tired of ranting, time to look at a RX-7 for personal enjoyment, not business.

[paint magnet]

its business...
its cut throat, because no one is just going to give you something for free. no ones going to worry about your company or make sure you arent struggling. if you dont sue and protect what you've patented, REGARDLESS of whether or not you first invented it, you wont see any money out of it and you are just setting yourself up for the next person to patent it and sue you. smart parts may not be liked by the paintball world, but they are doing what they have to in order to survive without merging into other companies and sucking the cash out of them like NPS is. GET OVER IT

There is a huge difference between buying out smaller companies (like NPS is doing) and putting them out of business by stealing their ideas, patenting them, and then suing other companies whose original designs happen to be remotely similar.

[Pneumagger]

There is a huge difference between buying out smaller companies (like NPS is doing) and putting them out of business by stealing their ideas, patenting them, and then suing other companies whose original designs happen to be remotely similar.

if that company can prove they had invented it first through a number of ways... they cant be sued for it. They can even probably counter sue. If a company doesn't want to take time to protect their ideas by thoroughly documenting them, it's their own fault if a bigger company jacks the idea.

[Badmovies.org]

If a company doesn't want to take time to protect their ideas by thoroughly documenting them, it's their own fault if a bigger company jacks the idea.

Rather than it being the fault of the bigger company acting in an unethical manner?

[Lohman446]

It's a bad thing when it hurts the sport. What if the Nelson Paint Co. decided to patent the use of o-rings in paintball markers back in the 80s?

On the other hand, you have companies like AGD with countless innovations (powerfeed, use of compressed air, etc.) which used their inventions to promote and advance the sport rather than try and make money off of small companies which didn't have enough money to fight it out in court.

And on top of all this, Smart Parts doesn't even have a legitimate claim to their patents. As far as I can remember they've always made decent knock-offs of everyone else's stuff (or bought/stole the rights to it). You didn't see anyone sue them over making the Boss, even though it was a Nelson clone. Or how about a little company called PVI?

SP bought PVI - thats not stealing there ideas. AGD had a self interest in advancing the sport, it was an interest calculated with others at the time - not saying it is any less admirable, but lets not make this into a totally selfless act. Its my beleif that compressed air used in the sport had enough problems, without a patent standing in the way as well.

[ProblemKinder]

its business...
its cut throat, because no one is just going to give you something for free. no ones going to worry about your company or make sure you arent struggling. if you dont sue and protect what you've patented, REGARDLESS of whether or not you first invented it, you wont see any money out of it and you are just setting yourself up for the next person to patent it and sue you. smart parts may not be liked by the paintball world, but they are doing what they have to in order to survive without merging into other companies and sucking the cash out of them like NPS is. GET OVER IT

haha, you're telling me if smart parts doesn't sue everybody and steal their ideas they won't survive? i'm pretty sure they could keep their heads above water if they did some of their own R&D instead of taking others'.

[Pneumagger]

Rather than it being the fault of the bigger company acting in an unethical manner?

Exactly. No law is in place to stop people from being mean or making business savvy decisions.

Would buy a new Porsche and leave the windows rolled down and the keys in the ignition wherever you park it? If that Porsche got stolen insurance companies would laugh at that insurance claim and tell you better luck next time. Alot of times, new technology is expensive, and if you fail to protect it the legal system won't be on your side.

If the new technology was important enough to squabble over after it was allegedly stolen, then it should've been important enough to get notarized for a few dollars at the local UPS store. Don't you think?

Bottom Line: our legal system works on a basis of undeniable fact and proof beyond reasonable doubt more so than morals. If you have a problem with that you should whine about the legal system and try to change that... not whine about people who benefit from the system.