Is this crazy?

[rkjunior303]

A new valve---like the RT/X Valve? Or the ULE body? Or the ULE Trigger Kit? Or the Level 10? Or the Y-Grip? Or the Intelliframe? Or the X-Mag? Or the Tac-One? Or the........dont tell me, it needs a newly redesigned valve---THATS THE ANSWER!(Easy to say since its the only thing left....where did you ever think of that!)

And how about something legitimately new that came out after 2003, besides the Tac-One. And to be honest, that doesn't even really count because it's just a new body..

no matter how you dress up the package, it's just the same old over and over.

[RogueFactor]

Karta? Not AGDs
Dallara? Not AGDs
Exile and Pariah? Definitely not AGDs.. Well, actually, they were, until you milled an ounce off of them.

How are any of those going to help AGD? Unless you're talking about the dealer cost they were purchased for..

All milled from AGD OEM parts....nuff said.

[rkjunior303]

All milled from AGD OEM parts....nuff said.

exactly.

how exactly do those those sales help them?

Triggers, feednecks, and detents? you're reaching, my friend. not exactly mind-blowing products there.

[RogueFactor]

And how about something legitimately new that came out after 2003

I agree. How about something legitimately new in the PB industry that came out after 2003?

[RogueFactor]

exactly.

how exactly do those those sales help them?

You must have missed the OEM part.

Triggers, feednecks, and detents? you're reaching, my friend. not exactly mind-blowing products there.

Call up CP and Kila! Let them know!!

[rkjunior303]

You must have missed the OEM part.

OEM? i must have forgotten that you were paying retail on them instead of dealer cost... OF COURSE that helps them out.

[SCpoloRicker]

The AGD design has pretty much hit it's peak. Much the same as the WGP Sniper/Autocker design, or the CCI design, or the Palmers designs...

There will continue to be tweaking and dedication from a core group. But attempting to break into the increasingly corporate 'mainstream' just isn't feasible.

Someone made the analogy to the MOPAR msucle scene in one of the other threads like this. I think that's a pretty good analogy.

[RogueFactor]

OEM? i must have forgotten that you were paying retail on them instead of dealer cost... OF COURSE that helps them out.

You really dont know what OEM means, do ya?

If AGD makes it, they make money off of it. How does that help them? Is that a serious question?

[Shane-O-Mac]

Last time I checked, no modern spooler gets 1200 shots off a full 88/4500. Many modern spoolers can get 700 off a 45...
Explain this statement, are you saying that a Mag cannot get 1200 shots from a 88/4500? My X-Valved mag w/LX, can shoot around 700 on my 45/4500, and I think that is equal to most "New" spoolers.

Guns have been getting more and more efficient, they just have not been advertised as such. Not a selling point, but it has been getting better.
Well tuned cockers used to get near 2000 for a 88/4500, so how does any gun getting lower than that getting more efficent? The original Shocker was the first air hog I can think of, and it has only gotten marginally better since.Not sure how new angels are doing for efficency though. AKA was the best electro for efficency, but SP royalty costs killed that.

If they're happy with their user base, then they have no reason to expand their product line. I simple believe that the one area they failed in was efficiency and if they were to "get back into the game" (so to speak), they would have to improve that.

Why does AGD need to "get back in the game"? A Mag isnt going to be a Nppl/PSP contender any more, so why spend all that money to sell a FEW guns. It just doesnt make good business sense.

As I said before, there are other guns that get better efficency, so buy one of them if thats your thing. Tom already did the research for more efficency and found it wouldnt be worth the cost to gain ratio.

[rkjunior303]

You really dont know what OEM means, do ya?

If AGD makes it, they make money off of it. How does that help them? Is that a serious question?

i dont exactly see the profit margins really being that high if you rely on selling at dealer cost because you have to sell the products cheap enough to make them attractive for resale by the dealers, you have to make sure they're making money off of them as well. if they're running small product runs, obviously the cost to create the part is going to be a lot higher - making that for a much smaller window to turn a sizeable profit on dealer sales.

regardless, some of us on the east coast need to work in the morning so as much as i'd like to debate point of views all night - its time for bed.

[SCpoloRicker]

rkjunior, I feel like you may be biased professionally, just because of the scale. A 'large' run for AGD really isn't that large.

[RogueFactor]

i dont exactly see the profit margins really being that high if you rely on selling at dealer cost because you have to sell the products cheap enough to make them attractive for resale by the dealers, you have to make sure they're making money off of them as well. if they're running small product runs, obviously the cost to create the part is going to be a lot higher - making that for a much smaller window to turn a sizeable profit on dealer sales.

Genious. Call every manufacturer and let them know they shouldnt be selling to dealers at dealer cost. Only sell direct. Let Shockteck know they need to close the doors and stop making all their versions of the popular markers. Call CCI let them know there isnt enough margin to exist. Let me know how they respond.

regardless, some of us on the east coast need to work in the morning so as much as i'd like to debate point of views all night - its time for bed.

That sucks. I was hoping you get us riled up

[LinearGoose]

no matter how you dress up the package, it's just the same old over and over.

Isnt that what everyone else is doing?

As for mags I really do think they would become popular in next decade or so and I think there a great highend mech gun.

Warning: (I base this conclusion off my head and this is why)

If you see there seems to be more pumps for sell and seems that more people are playing pump. I drew this conclusion because I see some pump players at the field and I see people wanting to buy them and talk playing there first game with them in this forum. People are playing pump because they are just getting tired of just unloading every game and are looking for that adrenaline rush like they had when they first played this sport. So lets say this trend continues well pretty soon people are going to want something faster but not as fast as an eltro. Still looking for that adrenaline rush but yet having a bit more of a fast pace game. So where do they go to next a nice highend mech gun and the circle of life continues once more.

[Shane-O-Mac]

And how about something legitimately new that came out after 2003,

no matter how you dress up the package, it's just the same old over and over.

That applies to MOST paintball guns.

How "New" is the alias Timmy versus the old classic? Not much, just tweaked and repackaged.

PM5 vs Matrix, a few efficency improvements, and milling, repackaged.......................

Hell, any stacked tube electro design is just an Electonic PMI III.................

Spoolers started with the Mag, the ICD made the Desert Fox which didnt have the on/off that Mags did, so really all the spoolers are electro Desert Foxes, Repackaged.............

See the trend, there hasnt been much "New" in gun design in a LONG, LONG time.

[maglover728]

HEY ROGUEFACTOR: You have Mail!

Karta, Dallara, Exile, Pariah....done. K, next....

And these all came Stock from AGD? And they are still in production from AGD? So AGD is making the money off their production, not just the sale of slug bodies?

RPG Exile and Pariah come with clamping feednecks. Both are cut from AGD bodies....done. K, next.....

Great, And these also are widely available? Cheap for Joe Noob, the guy thats going to be playing for the next decade and will be the future customer for AGD? I want my Pro Classic to come with one so I don't have to mess with the crappy feed elbows. Luke makes the classic feeds into verts and adds a clamping feed neck, he has the right idea and is making the money that AGD should be. While you were preaching, I assume that the stock ULE bodies were beginning to be factory back fitted with them???

Cuz AGD isnt going to pay SP. Tom made that clear.....done. K, next....

I may be wrong here but, I thought that that only applied if the gun was run by electronics. i.e. markers that don't use hammers to open the valve. If the patent includes the actuation of the sear by a noid, then I rescind this segment of my previous post. SP=Devil!

AGD's been there, done that. It was called the ULE E-mag rail. Then there was the AGD ULE tac-rail.

Oh, dont forget the ULE rails that are cut were cut from AGD slugs called the RPG Splinter, Sleeper, Shadow, Thrasher, and Recon rails. And the TunaRail. Moreso, these rails were cheaper ANNODIZED than AGD sold their rails for UNANNODIZED.

....done. K, next.....

Yeah, "were cut." Still in FACTORY PRODUCTION? I guess that AGD should find a cheaper ANNO company. My question was (Next time read it and if you post, try to include an answer) was why doesn't AGD look at what we are doing and offer it from the factory, You answered with non factory and out of production items as well as the name of a fellow AOer and his product. (Great AOer, Great Product by the way!) Thanks for making my point for me.

"K, next....

Im waiting for the possibilities that you may suggest that either 1) AGD has stated they wont ever do(sign with SP) 2) Have been done, 3) Are currently being done with AGD product

Let me know.

See above, answer the questions. I am waiting for a reply that might offer Joe Noob some hope that he won't have to settle for an Ion because AGD is going to make these product options (like other manufactures) STANDARD and cheap enough for his parents to make his Christmas dreams come true.

And by the way, by inaccurately dissecting my previous post, your last paragraph was backwards and useless. Nice try though.