hAir trigger

[RRfireblade]

He's not trying to prove anything. There isn't anything going on there. Colin has claimed since day one he doesn't infringe. He's free to biuld and sell anytime he wants.

[RRfireblade]

In fact , I just recalled . . .

http://www.68caliber.com/news/industry/story042366.php

There . . . build yer own.

[txaggie08]

except for the possible legal ramification's if a court case was to appear. Even if he wins, the odds are that the legal cost would offset any profits garnered from there sale, and the potential losses of an unfavorable result are far higher........ but then you knew that I'm sure, my commentary was more for the inevitable "why doesn't he then?" argument.

[ProblemKinder]

12/29/2004

hAir update- As some of you have heard, our progress has been slowed by some legal hurdles. The problem we ran into is that Pro-Team Products was recently granted a patent on assisted trigger mechanisms for paintball markers. Pro-Team insists that we are infringing this patent, and although we disagree with them, we have tried to cooperate so we can get the product released. We've been advised that our remaining options are expensive ones, and since we have already overspent resources in the development of this product, we have decided to shelve it for now and focus on our other projects. Again, we apologize for keeping everyone waiting on this. We do hope to revive this in the future, either when we can again justify allocating resources, or once we form partnerships that enable us to do so.

[ProblemKinder]

In fact , I just recalled . . .

http://www.68caliber.com/news/industry/story042366.php

There . . . build yer own.

that's a great idea. i'll just quit my job and start mass producing pneu-frames with my dremmel.

maybe some day when i get my drill press. but for now Home Depot just doesnt pay me enough for that. some day i'll have a real job tho. some day...

[Dark Side]

No one stopping anyone but demand.

Hell, that's a load right there. 6 month's ago damn near everyone wanted a Pnuemag. It was the biggest thing since the Lvl 10 came out.

[Chronobreak]

Well let's see . . .

PTP has one , DW has one and apparently 68 Super has one too. 3 years later . . . and there's less of a market for it than ever.

No one stopping anyone but demand.

how can there be demand for a product that doesnt exist?


i also recall a "pre order" or itnerest thread of sorts that dissapeared a while back

[RRfireblade]

Hell, that's a load right there. 6 month's ago damn near everyone wanted a Pnuemag. It was the biggest thing since the Lvl 10 came out.

Well quite a few people could have stepped up and tryed to make them. PTP was out of the picture to to health issues that had crippled the company. DW disapeared on the subject , a number of others claimed to be offering drop in kits and various other applications. As far as I can tell , Pnumagger is the only one , basically , who has stepped up and done anything.


Let me tell you something about AO from someone who been around a little while . . . Start with "Everyone" - 75% when it comes to sign up - 50% of that when personal info is asked and then -50% of that when it comes time to pony up the cash.

In the end , I think we figured the max Pneumags we'd expect to sell that late in the game was 150-200. 5 years ago or more ? Probably would have been a whole different situation.

Like I said , DW has the full go as far as I know to start putting them out. He claimed he might offer some kind of 'kit' a couple years ago. You'd have to ask him if they are still interested and why or why not. I can't speak for them.

As for PTP , like I said , they are not even yet back on thier feet from severe family illness that just about cost them everything they own , home and otherwise. Right now , they will not expend anything that doesn't promise full return + .

Not as many as you think are going to spend 3-400 on a grip frame.

[RRfireblade]

how can there be demand for a product that doesnt exist?


i also recall a "pre order" or itnerest thread of sorts that dissapeared a while back

You were told why that was.

[Dark Side]

Well quite a few people could have stepped up and tryed to make them. PTP was out of the picture to to health issues that had crippled the company. DW disapeared on the subject , a number of others claimed to be offering drop in kits and various other applications. As far as I can tell , Pnumagger is the only one , basically , who has stepped up and done anything.

Nope, somebody else here is building a drop in kit. And another was putting togeather parts kits. And then there was a website. And then there is a dealer with a frame...

Let me tell you something about AO from someone who been around a little while . . . Start with "Everyone" - 75% when it comes to sign up - 50% of that when personal info is asked and then -50% of that when it comes time to pony up the cash.

In the end , I think we figured the max Pneumags we'd expect to sell that late in the game was 150-200. 5 years ago or more ? Probably would have been a whole different situation.

So why, when DW was so close to putting the Hair out, did PTP jump all over him for infringing upon their patent if they were not going to be making any type of real profit?

Like I said , DW has the full go as far as I know to start putting them out. He claimed he might offer some kind of 'kit' a couple years ago. You'd have to ask him if they are still interested and why or why not. I can't speak for them.

Did DW get that in writing from PTP with a promise of no legal action or are you trying to derail the issue again?

As for PTP , like I said , they are not even yet back on thier feet from severe family illness that just about cost them everything they own , home and otherwise. Right now , they will not expend anything that doesn't promise full return + .

Explains why they stopped making Mag bodies then. But then not every other thing...

Not as many as you think are going to spend 3-400 on a grip frame.

You haven't seen Logics frame then have you?

[RRfireblade]

Nope, somebody else here is building a drop in kit. And another was putting togeather parts kits. And then there was a website. And then there is a dealer with a frame...

So what are you complaining about ? Go buy one. According you 'Everyone' should have one by now.



So why, when DW was so close to putting the Hair out, did PTP jump all over him for infringing upon their patent if they were not going to be making any type of real profit?

There was no jumpinh all over , you don't know what you are talkiing about. There are a letter of concern sent. DW claimed no infringement , had an app on file and now a full patent for his mechanism . . . case closed.





Did DW get that in writing from PTP with a promise of no legal action or are you trying to derail the issue again?

Not derailing anything , he doesn't need a letter to sell anything. He needs a C&D to even have a concern or a Court finding to be forced to stop. DW has a PATENT in hand for his frame mechanism. There's nothing more to discuss there.



Explains why they stopped making Mag bodies then. But then not every other thing...

Dude you are WAY out of the loop. PTP hasn't made a Mag body on over 6 years. In the last 2+ years , they haven't made a single paintball product.



You haven't seen Logics frame then have you?

First off , I didn't say NO ONE , I said not as many as you might think. And yeah , Ryan has under a hundred preorders last I looked. On a 300 retail , you'd be luck to net a grand profit on the whole run, weeks or months worth of effort at least. Hardly a big incentive. I make around a grand a week on my 'day' job alone. In the world of paintball and production . . . anything , if you don't have demand to sell at least 1000 units. you have nothing.

You need to stop arguing about what you have no idea of.

[Chronobreak]

You were told why that was.

sure, but to say there is no interest, or demand is pure bull and you know it.

also saying the people that express'd interest are unwilling to pay is pretty insulting if you ask me.

RF often said the same thing about people not putting up $, and he miraculaously got enough people together for an order of slugs.

so whats gonna be said next? an all mech is pointless these days and wont sell in the world of fast flashy things?, then make it fully e-pneumatic like a mag SHOULD have been and take advantage of the guns full potential.



lets go dig the dead horse up so we can kick it again

--edit, must be nice to jay as hes holding my mag hostage

[RRfireblade]

I wasn't the one who dig it up.

I said , mostly half heartedly BTW , that there wasn't any 'real' demand for it. There still isn't , wasn't a ton 3 years ago , much less last year and even less now. There is some of course but not much. How many DYI do you even really see ? A dozen ? If that ? Your talking about $30-$40 in parts and have your own. Why aren't we seeing hundreds of those turning up all over ? Not to mention most of the few you do see end up in the B/S/T inside a month.

Look . . . I didn't realize each and every word was going to go under the microscope especially over an issue that is no longer an issue.

If someone wants to mass market one , go thru the right channels like everyone else in the entire business and paintbll world and go ahead and do it. If "Everyone" wants one like some people claim , any minimal licensing costs are definately not going to stop anyone. Hundereds of thousands of Electros are sold every year under agreement of some kind , sounds like you couldn't lose.

[RRfireblade]

--edit, must be nice to jay as hes holding my mag hostage

Eh , I'd never hold it over this kind of wasted arguing.

[Dark Side]

ok for arguments sake. Why go and get a patent for a product that has very little market value?

Last time I checked the patent site, getting one was a chunk of change. So to gat a patent on something you won't sell is idiotic.

Yes it did work for the electro. That's why a number of small companies went out of business.

A letter of concern is a very tactful way of saying back off or legal action will insue.


EDIT: You might want to tell PTP they made way too much 2+ years ago to still be selling off the old stock.