Official Venomous Designs Body Pre Order

[p8ntbal4me]

I think that all of the auctions say that he is selling "extras" or his "personal" items. It might be just enough to keep him out of trouble. It would be hard to prove that a certain body was supposed to be yours unless you had specific proof that you paid for a certain serial numbered body.

No,.. it does NOT work like that.

Mongoose did a "RUN" of items,.. none serialized specific to each buyer. So by consumer law, the eBay auction is a fraudulent sale because there are buyers PRE-DATING the auction sale date for the same goods already purchased.

You guys need to look this stuff up!!!! Get on this before the credit card companies wont help you. This is FRAUD guys,..... make an example of this.

[p8ntbal4me]

I thought the items being sold on EBay were extras? Are there items being sold there that are due to other customer?

They are not EXTRAS until all the sales contracts for purchased items have been completed. He "legally" has ZERO extras right now.

An example would be my own frames: the remaining VER frames I have have no buyers for them,.. and all the original purchases have been completed. Therefore the remaining VER frames are "EXTRAS" and have no contractual ownership to anyone other than myself.

[Patron God of Pirates]

They are not EXTRAS until all the sales contracts for purchased items have been completed. He "legally" has ZERO extras right now.

An example would be my own frames: the remaining VER frames I have have no buyers for them,.. and all the original purchases have been completed. Therefore the remaining VER frames are "EXTRAS" and have no contractual ownership to anyone other than myself.

I'm an outsider on this one but I check in on this thread when it gets bumped. What you are saying makes sense. The grey area I see is that he as apparently selling items that he does not have buyers for. Say he had 10 orders for item A and 10 for item B. It looks as though he had 15 of item A made and 0 of item B. He is selling item A on ebay but since that particular item is not owed to any individual, does it count as "extra"? Or, since he evidently used the pre-sale money for B on A, does that mean that he acquired the "extra" A's fraudulently and in doing so breached his contract with the buyers of item B?

What should happen is that all of the "extra's" should be ceased and sold off to repay the victims. I doubt that will happen though.

[OPBN]

They are not EXTRAS until all the sales contracts for purchased items have been completed. He "legally" has ZERO extras right now.

An example would be my own frames: the remaining VER frames I have have no buyers for them,.. and all the original purchases have been completed. Therefore the remaining VER frames are "EXTRAS" and have no contractual ownership to anyone other than myself.

Perhaps he should have offered these items to replace the ones that he did not finish getting made. I don't believe the items he is selling on Ebay were ever sold to anyone, they are extras of items that did not sell. Now if he is selling parts that were paid for by others, than yes that constitutes as fraud. He is also selling several sets of panels and foregrips. Is this fraud as well? That makes no sense.

For the record, I'm in no way defending this jacknut and/or his behavior. I had my own run in with him a long time ago and wouldn't trust him with a penny of my money anymore. I feel for everyone that is owed money/parts. Hopefully he will sell some things and repay everyone or make enough to be able to get the rest of whats owed built. I doubt it, but here's hoping.

[BigEvil]

The 'extra' bodies and rails should have been offered as compensation to anyone that he owes money to BEFORE they were put on EBay.

I don't talk to him anymore, but knowing his history and putting 2 + 2 together it looks like he is selling off his personal paintball gear long with a bunch of T-Fal cooking stuff that most likely his parents (who work for Tfal) are getting. For all the years I have known him he has had ONE real job and that didn't last too long so I surmise he is using whatever ebay money he is making as his only source of income.

[tolar250]

ive gotten communication back open with him.

Hello Travis,
This was in my Spam folder, not sure why....sorry i missed it.

Please send me a complete list of what is owed to you and i will send what i have right away and refund for what i dont have. Please Inform anyone you may know to do the same asap. Please have a record of your payment(s) with the email.

so lets see where this goes.

[tolar250]

and this

At this point in time, ALL body Pre orders have been Terminated. I have tried multiple times, in the end the bodies were tested and did not function to specs needed....therefore i could not sell them if they did not work. I Have spent much more then the pre order amount collected. The Pre order money can not be refunded. But if you paid in full for one of these bodies i can and will refund you that money because the product was not completed.

At this time the V.2 and V.3 grips will be made. yes they have been delayed but production on them is still in effect and they will be completed.

[BTAutoMag]

no... a preorder deposit is to secure your place in line and if you back out is non refundable. If the manufacturer terminated the project then the preorder deposits should be refunded.

he also said in that statement that those who paid in full will get their money back... so if those of you who have paid a deposit want their money back pay him the rest and he'll give you a refund:rofl:

[OPBN]

Wow. He may not be able to, but I would like to see XMT chime in on this. From my understanding he was the one actually milling the bodies.

[debruynda]

no... a preorder deposit is to secure your place in line and if you back out is non refundable. If the manufacturer terminated the project then the preorder deposits should be refunded.

he also said in that statement that those who paid in full will get their money back... so if those of you who have paid a deposit want their money back pay him the rest and he'll give you a refund:rofl:

I know a little something about contract law so here is my humble addition:

A contract like this could only be terminated by Venomous Designs if it became impossible to perform (i.e. there would be no materials available and no machines anywhere that could complete the project would render it impossible), it appears from his email that it only became harder to perform his end since the bodies did not meet spec (that is his problem, not one the buyer has to assume). This is what in legal terms makes it a frustrated contract as opposed to impossible, which he seems to be asserting. He still was required to meet his end of the bargain (producing a product he promised to deliver) even though it became harder for him. In addition, he did not provide any terms governing the agreement in regards to the deposit from what I can tell, going off of course what started this debacle on page one of the thread. This goes to say I think there is a good legal argument for the deposit money to be refunded also, depending on how much is involved and it is worth the time and effort for those who paid a deposit without paying the full amount.

My two cents.

[BTAutoMag]

youre welcome

[Xmagterror]

I have had no contact with mongoose in over a year and a half. Mongoose had the lathe portion of some slug bodies made but the shop that did them scraped them. I have nothing to do with this project anymore....I have my own stuff to work on. posting this up because i keep getting PM's from members asking whats going on.

[BTAutoMag]

Good to hear this from you terror

[kwik175]

and this

So if the bodies were tested and they did not perform to the specs desired, are the bodies being sold on Ebay no good? I have seen some pics of completed guns with these bodies and am wondering if the owners are having any problems ? His reply seems to me to be a good copout that only provides more problems for the people that did get a body.

[BigEvil]

Christian is not of sufficient technical expertise to determine if anything "works" or not.