Cheater!

[kszyszkowski]

Thx - I want one from the next run then pls.

I will check the rates and will return with PM to you.

regards

[Barsse]

Please put me down on the list for the next order whenever it may come.

[Wrathbringer]

I'm interested in a Cheater but it looks like the next run is filling up fast so I'll wait for the one after. Great looking stuff though!

BTW Zap I must say kudos to you with keeping everyone here informed with what's going on. You've kept everyone up to date with your progress without giving everyone any BS, and with the way some custom projects have gone around here it's a refreshing change!

[Storminnorman]

would putting a qev on the cheater improve performance?

[ZapTheMad]

would putting a qev on the cheater improve performance?

Not possible or necessary. The piston port goes directly to the valve chamber inside the body. The reason you want a QEV is to reduce the amount of distance the air needs to move. With a typical set up the air needs to back track thru tiny hoses, fittings, and whatnot and that makes speed killing back pressure. A QEV adds a point where the air can escape before going back thru all the plumbing. All the ports inside a Cheater are large and free flowing with minimum back pressure. Think of the exhaust side of my valve system like a built in QEV.

[correia3]

I was lucky enough to get one of these units from Zap in what I believe was a small pre-run before he started this thread. I have
had it running on my marker for 2 days now and I must say I am very impressed. First of all, Zap is a great guy to deal with, as you can all
tell from the frequent posts and updates in this thread. Zap sent me a PM or an e-mail at least once a week to let me know where he was in
the process of getting up and running in preparation for the pre-order. After a short delay for a few design changes, I had my "Cheater" and
a beautiful set of clear acrylic panels for my 'Telli. After I got it installed, I had a problem that actually turned out to be my sear, but Zap was
right there with helpful advice when I asked. So you all know that Zap is a great guy, and he builds quality stuff, and his customer service/tech
support is great too, but what you all want to know is "how does it shoot?". First let me say, I am not an "electro guy". I play mech. I usually
play rec ball or woods ball with my buddies, although I played in tourneys back in the late 90's. This is the first pneumatic 'Mag that I have
owned. My "trigger walking" skills are pretty poor, to say the least. However, I was able to get a nice, consistent string going. I would estimate
that the Cheater increased my ROF by about 65% over my regular 2-finger trigger style. The trigger-pull is short and crisp, although I would
second Zap's recommendation that you install trigger-stops. I think adding them to mine would probably make me even faster by taking some
of the extra travel out of the trigger. I have shot through two 68/3000 tanks in 2 days just messing around with this thing and getting a feel for
it in the back yard. I am really getting to enjoy it. All I can tell you besides that is get one if you can, you won't be disappointed...

[kwood]

now that you have us all hot and bothered about the cheaeter
make us a video friend

[correia3]

now that you have us all hot and bothered about the cheaeter
make us a video friend

I'd be affraid of scaring you guys off with my poor trigger skills - and maybe a little embarrassed, too. Check this out if you haven't already:

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=245528

Pretty good representaion of what we are getting...

[ZapTheMad]

I did not get much done Friday because Grammy crashed her Kia. She was not injured. The high point was pissing off the jerkish tow truck driver. A little creativity with a hammer, prybar, and some bailing wire sent him home with an empty pocket

We wound up staying at her place last night. I got 3 orders boxed up yesterday but did not think to take them with me. No orders shipped. I'm on Dad Patrol for tonight and work will resume tomorrow afternoon. Final tuning is taking a little longer than expected. The last few orders will probably go out mid week.

I need to amend the operating pressure spec. The 1/2" piston is quite strong. I'm calibrating them at 10 PSI. Things start getting sluggish down around 5-7 PSI. 10 PSI is a good responsive setting and should work well for most. My test rig allows me to rest weight directly on the sear and it supports 2 pounds at 10 PSI. 40 PSI is way beyond overkill and hammering your gun pretty hard. Maximum recommended operating pressure is 20 PSI. That should be enough power to fire even the stiffest classic valve. It will function at higher pressures but the trigger gets harder as the pressure goes up. You will blow the hose off before you damage anything inside so no need to worry about killing your Cheater. I'm working on putting together a downloadable user manual with more detailed information as well as rebuild and tuning tips.

Gotta go! Time to go fly our styrofoam plane. I'll stop in Monday at the latest and let you know how many shipped.

[jade_monkey07]

10 psi! is there anything out there that will reliably put out only 10 psi? ill probably need a little more with an rt on/off but still. i know the tickler suck bawz at low low pressure. I still want something small. what about the micro rocks? can they fit in a frame? Id like to make it sleeper, thats my project now.

[ezcreation]

That is actually a great question regarding the output pressure of a tickler...Anyone as an idea?

[ZapTheMad]

I tested these with a Palmers Micro Rock and they work great. It is a bit wider than most frames but will fit inside with a little milling in the grips. I like the Palmer because it is designed well with a big piston. I think those Dye bullet style LPR's have a big piston too but they are kind of long.

Most LPR's should work OK unless it has really stiff springs. Stay away from the Mako's. The springs are so soft that it wont even open at more than 750 PSI input. If you have trouble with your LPR at low pressure a trip to the hardware store for a softer piston spring might get it to do the job. I had an old STO type clone LPR at one time and I think it would have done fine at 10 PSI. It just depends on how it is sprung. If you can squash the piston spring in your fingers with medium effort then it will probably work.

2 thru 7 shipped today. The Grass Valley one will probably be there tomorrow. Here they come guys! Next round of shipping on Wed.

[p8ntbal4me]

Zap;

Did you ever actually start the new list for those of us that want to be on the next orders?

I saw 10+ not including myself..... might wanna get that order list to the top so we can rest easy!

~ P8nt

[ZapTheMad]

Too much paperwork to track multiple lists and everyone wanting to pay at different times. The only list I'm going to keep is the one with payments made. I would take more orders but I don't want to get to far ahead (or behind I guess). I'm still figuring out ways to speed things up as I go. Don't worry, I'll make my way around to everyone.

[vf-xx]

2 thru 7 shipped today. The Grass Valley one will probably be there tomorrow. Here they come guys! Next round of shipping on Wed.

Yaayyyyy!!!!!!