new round idea

[kruger]

Good theory and it would probably work, but lateral spin doesn't help spheres anyway. Tom Kaye proved that even with the shell and fill spinning at up to 30,000rpm there was still no accuracy increase.


I am in this just for the sake of discussion. And, tom tested this with liquid filled shells, not gel filled. What I am referring to is more of a solid with the gel fill. And, with a solid, spinning is def. an accuracy enhancer. Ever hear of a Musket Ball? Granted, a Musket ball is spinning a much greater rate, but, in theory is the same principal. You are never going to get bullet like accuracy with a slow moving paintball and I know that. But, it seems that what this guy is trying to to do is a bit complex and it can be done in a much simpler way.

[Ethereal]

whats unrealistic?

[ThePixelGuru]

sory ment to say i desined 4 michiens i did not make them and safty is not a problem cause its a smaller mass and the soports are ment to colaps lol there not steal lol there probly no stronger then a wet tooth pick and were not sure of the consistancy of the fill may be no diff from jello

How are these supports meant to collapse? I don't see anything about it in your design. Even if they are made out of the same gelatin as a normal paintball shell, these are going to hurt more. The supports (and your jell-o fill) will have less give than a normal .68cal sphere, so it will impart more force to the target. Think about it this way - if you roll up a piece of paper and slap someone with it, it won't do much, but you can hit them a little harder with it if you poke them. That's because the paper has more give from the side than dead on. Now think about previous paintball welts you've gotten. Remember that ring around them? That's where the shell hit you dead on, and it did more damage to your skin there than in the center where the ball had a lot of give to it.

These are all going to be concerns of anyone you try to get to fund your idea (since I assume this is more than you can cover out-of-pocket). And keep in mind that whatever ideas for machines you've had will probably need to be modified quite a bit by the time you're actually drafting blueprints.

I am in this just for the sake of discussion. And, tom tested this with liquid filled shells, not gel filled. What I am referring to is more of a solid with the gel fill. And, with a solid, spinning is def. an accuracy enhancer. Ever hear of a Musket Ball? Granted, a Musket ball is spinning a much greater rate, but, in theory is the same principal. You are never going to get bullet like accuracy with a slow moving paintball and I know that. But, it seems that what this guy is trying to to do is a bit complex and it can be done in a much simpler way.

Yup, I'm just playing devil's advocate, too. Anyway, yeah, I guess you could probably spin a solid ball a little better, but it shouldn't matter whether it's a solid or a liquid fill as long as it's spinning at the same speed as the shell (as in Kaye's tests). Concerning muskets - it was my understanding that only the smoothbore muskets fired actual balls. When they started rifling them it was a conversion to use the Minnie ball, which wasn't a ball at all but rather a stubby, .58cal bullet. Correct me if I'm missing anything, but I've never heard of a laterally-spun round that wasn't bullet shaped. Actual bullets, FN303 rounds, those domed air rifle rounds - all of them are flat-backed. I don't think it's a coincidence.

[kruger]

The Minnie was the next logical step in bullet design. Before the Mini, it was found that spinning the musketball did make a projectile more stable, but there were still short falls and manufacturing hurdles to overcome. But, the principal is still the same. And, to get really stable, you have to spin it up at incredible speed. I am not saying that this will work with a paintball...........I dont think that it will. But as mental exercise, in theory, it should produce some change in the trajectory of the ball. Now, whether that change is to the good or not is actually the subject of this thread, is it not?

[Ethereal]

i glad i got good arguments now i cant say exatly what it will feel like . i have updaded the desin a bit i imagin it will hurt more thou not a whole lot. at least not enof to be unsafe and with bilistics you cant realy no till it is tested and perfected then when you got a relibal round make the gun once people see the new ammo and gun or guns i bet my balls they could not keep them in stock

[dstud2000]

even if in theory and eventually practice the round you are designing works, you still have to overcome the ease at which a ball is loaded and carried. Spheres are practical for quick loading, feeding and storage. Other shapes beyond the ball will be almost uni-directional in the need at which they must be loaded to the breach.

Next thought. In the real world of firearms, brush, leaves and foilage prove very little hinderence as the round has the kinetic energy to push through them with little to know deviation in trajectory till it hits something more solid. With a paintball this is not so, it can hit the smallest twig or vine will cause the ball to riccochet or more likely it will break making it useless. So as it has been found the higher volume of paint tends to help make up for this or even in some instances cut a firing lane enough for a few balls to get through where you want it.

Firearms have developed and evolved into what they are now. Paintball guns are not firearms, they will evolve in their own direction not necesarily along the lines of firearms.

Personally I just would rather take good care of my equipment and spend time making it mine by using it the best on the field as I can.

Oh and thanks to those who commited some great thoughts, comments and ideas in this thread it has been a great read

[ThePixelGuru]

The Minnie was the next logical step in bullet design. Before the Mini, it was found that spinning the musketball did make a projectile more stable, but there were still short falls and manufacturing hurdles to overcome. But, the principal is still the same. And, to get really stable, you have to spin it up at incredible speed. I am not saying that this will work with a paintball...........I dont think that it will. But as mental exercise, in theory, it should produce some change in the trajectory of the ball. Now, whether that change is to the good or not is actually the subject of this thread, is it not?

Hmm, didn't know about those, but they seem like your best bet. If we're going with a football or sphere and neither has any evidence to indicate that it'll work, you might as well go with the one that'll fit in the current loaders and markers.

i glad i got good arguments now i cant say exatly what it will feel like . i have updaded the desin a bit i imagin it will hurt more thou not a whole lot. at least not enof to be unsafe and with bilistics you cant realy no till it is tested and perfected then when you got a relibal round make the gun once people see the new ammo and gun or guns i bet my balls they could not keep them in stock

For one, if you imagine it will hurt more it's probably unsafe. Paintballs are limited at 300fps because over that is the speed at which they can break finger bones - if your round hurts any more than that, it could break fingers. Keep in mind your round is a smaller caliber but longer, so probably about the same weight but a smaller surface area, meaning more force imparted to the target. More force than conventional paintballs will be unsafe.

And again, you're banking on the assumption that people will abandon all their current gear and rush out to buy your totally new system. A lot less revolutionary ideas have flopped because people didn't abandon the status quo. The Qloader has caught on the most out of these sorts of ideas, clip loaders are a tiny niche market, the Warp pretty much flopped, and pretty much every marker that shoot something other than .68cal failed. For better or worse, your idea changes too much for people to jump on it. The markets are resistant to change, and I don't think you can change that much at one time and actually be successful.