Why blowforward?

[beam]

Why did AGD decide on a blow forward design?

Could a blowback design cycle the bolt faster than a the bolt spring? Or does it make a difference?

I always wondered what the advantages are...there MUST be a reason.

[scarpa43]

This quote was taken from part of the "History of the Automag" section of the Airgun Europe website.

For the whole story go to http://www.airgun.com/Europe/68History.html

"After two years of research and development, we knew there were two inherent problems with a blowback design. First, while the heavy bolt being blown back was necessary to slow the action down, it reduced efficiency. The heavier the bolt, the more energy it consumed; lightening the bolt made it harder for the bolt to open the valve far enough. The second fundamental problem was in allocating how much energy went to blow back the bolt (requiring a fixed amount) versus propelling the ball (variable with tank pressure and velocity setting). With all of our blowback designs velocity was dependent on tank pressure which caused velocity to drop when firing enough to chill the tank down."

[AdrenalineMag]

but you forgot...

worder perfectly scarpa43, but you forgot one thing they mentioned, with the blow forward design the bolt would always be cocked, thus reducing the pressure needed to recock the gun so it could run at a lower pressure that a blowback, obviously the mag isnt of the "low pressure" crowd today, but back in the early '90s it was. also, agd did go with the blowback design to begin with, with the panther, and p2 (panther 2), then they decided to go with a whole new design so they cleaned the board, made a list of wthings they wanted in the gun and figured out that blow-forward technique would be the best for what they wanted, hope my info was also helpful

[Viral]

And beyond everything else, let's face it... it's just cool to slap a tank on and start firing! No ugly cocking arm sticking out anywhere, just waiting to collect dust and moisture

--Viral

[Ityl]

imo - blow forward is the best for a mechcanical gun and blow back is the best for electro.

blowforward is very simple design but highly effective. Compared to a spyder, a mag gets a lot more shots per tank, more reliable, and is smaller.

But electro blowback, like the angel, impulse, bushy. Really it should not be called a blowback. A solenoid takes the place of the striker spring and the need for the air to blow the striker back. But since the pressure moving the bolt is less than 200psi, more like 90 on the Matrix with reg, the ball is less likely to be chopped from a misfeed than with the 350-400 psi a blowforward mag has.

Also the angel users seem to get better efficency ( I do not know this for a fact), adjustable dwell which can lead to less chopping and less blowback, and a more tweakable gun, like the autococker. People want to squeeze the last 10% amount of performance from a top of the line gun. People want to pick up the gun and have it work everytime that buy the lower end guns.

So imho, a blowforward gun is not the best design for an electro, but the best for a mechanical marker.

-I didn't say the autococker is the best for a mechanical marker because it isn't, it's complex, and slower. It's a gun with many systems to accomplish one simple task. But it's so cool to make the work to the best of their ability. It's like the flathead motor, why perfect the flathead motor when overhead valve motors get more performance easier.

[Viral]

Has this guy not SEEN an E-Mag????

Um, the method used to fire a paintball gun (mechanical vs electropneumatic) and the type of bolt system a gun uses (blow-forward, blow-back, closed bolt) have nothing to do with each other.

I would argue the only part of the entire gas process that can make a difference is how fast the valve can recharge and get ready for the next trigger pull. Electros have the ability to be fired faster, in most cases, and therefore the gun you choose needs to have a fast recharge time.

--Viral

[CHK6]

I like the design

Though my personal opinion doesn't matter.

The blow forward design is really unique and in one operation multiple tasks are performed at the same time. By firing the marker not only is the same blast of air firing the ball down the barrel it also compresses the spring to recock the bolt. Sorta like the sang "killing two birds with one stone." Unlike other markers that requires seperate channels for gas flow to perform an action on the operation of the marker while the blow forward design only requires one. While the design of the Mag's blow forward is extremely unique, compared to the same-o designs on the market, it's also the simplest; KISS principle is evident in this design.
I know of only two blow forward design, the AGD and Indian Creek. I think the Indian Creek is a slight deviation.

My second favorite design is the Ram Bolt design from Arrow Precision. Personally if I was Budd or Palmer I would have bought the patent. Nothing against those two, very very high ranking mechanical engineers in my book, but I think those that designed the Ram Bolt stepped out of the "cocker" box and saw something a little better and simpler.

[Ityl]

viral-I was saying that the blowforward design is the best for a mechanical marker. But When it comes to electros I think a blowback type is better. I know emags are blowforward, and I think that is the only downfall to it. And I have seen and shot an emag :)

[NikeMann]

The blow forward design much simpler using less moving parts and causing much less friction. Blow forward also uses less orings for less chance of air leak and less to fix. I started my paintballing with a spyder, then moved to a desert fox (indian creek's version of the mag) and i was amazed when I first took the fox apart. It had so much less to deal with and to clean/oil. Another advantage to the blow forward is the velocity is adjusted by the air presure rather than a spring resulting in more consistancy. I have seen a cocker and a plamer shoot, although I have not studied internals of either, they seem to have more moving parts than blow back. I'm still amazed at how people talk those guns up when it seems like they would be much slower and use more air. It's all a mater of opinion I guess, and mine is with the blow back. Like i said, I shot a fox and it was the best gun I used because I could shoot it faster than my friend with a cocker. And his gun costs alot more than mine. After shooting my fox for 2 years I wanted to move to electric. At first I was looking at an angel. It seemed to cost alot and it wasnt as nice as i expected it to be. Then they had an emag which i remembered had the same valve design as my fox so I took it in a heart beat. By far I think the blow forward is a much better and more efficient design than any other out there.

Just remember, this is my own personal opinion, and cannot be downgraded by others.