ace improvements

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  • 314159
    Registered User
    • Nov 2001
    • 555

    #1

    ace improvements

    i wish i could email or pm this to you tom, but you have thoes options disabled. moderators, if you feel this is not sutable for a public forum, please delete it.

    tom, i talked to you a little about an ace sensor that you would not have to adjust at the tech conference at the iao.

    you could easily whip up something that would not require any adjustment of the sensitivity of the eye with a pot, or adjusting the delay that would enabeling fire after the threshold of the sensor was met. this could be done without any modification to the emag board, and be contained alone in the ace board. the key part is about $1 in quanities of 1000 (save probally about $.30 for ditching the pot and it's not so bad).

    the key part is the picmicro 12f675, this is a 8 pin microcontroller with a built in oscillator, the only one with flash memory in 8 pins with analog inputs. the code between the low end picmicro microcontrollers is compatable so you could dump it in a one time programable part if the package type you want is not redily avalible.

    here is the key, the microcontroller would measure the output from the detector half of the sensor (phototransistor/photoresistor....). off of the top of my head, i don't think that it would be unreasonable to take 10 or 20 measurements per millisecond. the microcontroller would enable the firing of the marker when the signal from the sensor stopped increasing (ball on bottom of the breach). there are other checks that you could have the microcontroller do to see if the ball is ready to fire.

    this system would probally alow slightly faster detection than your current system. it could disable fire if a ball bounces up a little from jumping, diving into a bunker till that ball is seated again. it would take the calabration time away. it is inexpensive too.

    you might be asking why i am talking to you about this, your sensor is the only one that would take advantage of this idea, i don't see myself using this idea in any of my own projects, so i figure, why not let agd use it to make a better paintball gun.
    As society and the problems that face it become more and more complex and machines become more and more intelligent, people will let machines make more of their decisions for them, simply because machine-made decisions will bring better results than man-made ones. Eventually a stage may be reached at which the decisions necessary to keep the system running will be so complex that human beings will be incapable of making them intelligently. At that stage the machines will be in effective control. People won't be able to just turn the machines off, because they will be so dependent on them that turning them off would amount to suicide

    sometimes I just freaking hate people. which means the next day I will love them for the sake of balance, but right now I will just concentrate on the hating. Hate hate hate. Blaaaarg! ;)

    turborev - with ai like this, if it controlled any more than a paddle, it would kill you and everyone you care about. ;)
  • Vegeta
    Moderator? Mob Boss.
    • Oct 2001
    • 1050

    #2
    Very good work pi.


    ..and I had no idea that the picmcr12f675 was that cheap.... o.O
    -Vegeta
    View my DevArt gallery Here

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    • 314159
      Registered User
      • Nov 2001
      • 555

      #3
      the only member of the 8 pin pic family with analog to digital converters that is flash too.

      just though of something that also benifit the emag trigger, if you monitor the output of the hall effect sensor in a similar maner, and send the signal to fire the marker whenever the signal from the hall effect sensor goes from steady/decreasing to increasing. you would have one sweet trigger that you would not have to fine tune.
      Last edited by 314159; 08-15-2002, 09:37 PM.
      As society and the problems that face it become more and more complex and machines become more and more intelligent, people will let machines make more of their decisions for them, simply because machine-made decisions will bring better results than man-made ones. Eventually a stage may be reached at which the decisions necessary to keep the system running will be so complex that human beings will be incapable of making them intelligently. At that stage the machines will be in effective control. People won't be able to just turn the machines off, because they will be so dependent on them that turning them off would amount to suicide

      sometimes I just freaking hate people. which means the next day I will love them for the sake of balance, but right now I will just concentrate on the hating. Hate hate hate. Blaaaarg! ;)

      turborev - with ai like this, if it controlled any more than a paddle, it would kill you and everyone you care about. ;)

      Comment

      • AGD
        The man from AGD

        • Oct 2000
        • 5916

        #4
        314,

        John Sosta in England already has a prototype of this on the field in beta testing. We went ahead with the current version for time reasons. You can expect it in the 2003 model.

        Figure out something cheap that doesnt use light and I would be really interested. We looked into non-metalic prox sensors but they are very expensive.

        AGD
        sigpic

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        • Redkey
          Registered User
          • Jan 2002
          • 176

          #5
          pssst....

          ultrasonic sound waves... either transmitted or reflected.

          Comment

          • mag-nanamus
            Registered User
            • May 2002
            • 28

            #6
            I've tried them, they need too much area and sound is much slower than light. I'm wondering if mechanical sensors are the way to go.

            Comment

            • manike
              INCEPTIONDESIGNS.COM

              • Jan 2001
              • 3820

              #7
              I was just about to post that John is already looking into this but Tom beat me to it. :)

              It sounds like a great way to have an ace that works with any paint in any conditions amounts of sunlight etc.

              To be honest the ACE on my gun is working beautifully but there's always room for improvement/advancement. :)

              314, I think the e-magnum board may monitor the trigger that way or similarly, it certainly appears to be more sensitive to movement...

              manike
              Inception Designs - My new company where Innovation is the Inspiration

              Comment

              • 314159
                Registered User
                • Nov 2001
                • 555

                #8
                Originally posted by AGD
                Figure out something cheap that doesnt use light and I would be really interested. We looked into non-metalic prox sensors but they are very expensive.
                you take a heaven's gate member, shirink him down so that he will fit in the body. you monitor his vital signs to detect when he thinks the big comet is comming j/k

                now for the serious one, the first idea that i posted would not work how i would like with a warp feed breach. i suppose that in desire to accomidate the warp feed breach, you backed away from the break beam system..... under the area where the feed port module would go, have a source and a detector for the break beam system, can be relatively anywhere. then with your feed port modules, you could have fibre optic pieces that would match up with the source and detector, the other end of these fibre optic pieces would position the beam in the most advantageous spots in the breech for that type of feed. (ie. bottom for vertical feed, side for warp feed...)

                and for marketing purposes, if you would use the lazer as the source for the break beam system. you could have a nice "warning, contains class_ lazer...." inscription on the side. ^_^
                As society and the problems that face it become more and more complex and machines become more and more intelligent, people will let machines make more of their decisions for them, simply because machine-made decisions will bring better results than man-made ones. Eventually a stage may be reached at which the decisions necessary to keep the system running will be so complex that human beings will be incapable of making them intelligently. At that stage the machines will be in effective control. People won't be able to just turn the machines off, because they will be so dependent on them that turning them off would amount to suicide

                sometimes I just freaking hate people. which means the next day I will love them for the sake of balance, but right now I will just concentrate on the hating. Hate hate hate. Blaaaarg! ;)

                turborev - with ai like this, if it controlled any more than a paddle, it would kill you and everyone you care about. ;)

                Comment

                • bjjb99
                  Registered User
                  • Dec 2001
                  • 318

                  #9
                  Originally posted by 314159


                  you take a heaven's gate member, shirink him down so that he will fit in the body. you monitor his vital signs to detect when he thinks the big comet is comming j/k

                  Wouldn't that be a one-shot detector, unless you had a clip-feed for shrunken heaven's gate memebers?

                  BJJB

                  Comment

                  • nerobro
                    Registered User
                    • Oct 2001
                    • 923

                    #10
                    Ok, here's an off the wall idea....

                    Smoke detectors use a small chunk of americium to charge the air particles in a metal box.... when you put smoke (other particles) in the box, the charge of the box changes.

                    What about a "radioactive" ball sensor. though i'm not sure of this systems responce time. I"m just not sure of another good way of "charging" the air in the chamber. I'm sure a radioactive flake won't make people happy.

                    another more sane idea.....

                    Another thought is to go with the ultrasonic sensor... but during a discussion with pi I found out that they don't have the resolution that we want at such close ranges... Ultrasound would have issues with contamination. any paint and it's shot.

                    now what about imaging... cheaply...

                    Though you'd end up with a much higher current draw.. and a much more expensive setup.. a bright light on one side of the breach and 4-5 solar cells on the other side (or photoresistors, or phottransistors..) To measuere the actuall hight of the ball. sort of an imaging system with 4-5 pixels.


                    Now back to the EM spectrum... and charges..

                    with a small rf transmitter you could turn the chamber into a resonant cavity, and use changes in the wave pattern to judge weathter a ball is in there or not.. but I'm not sure about that systems resolution. RF has always seemed to be a lot of guesswork to me. (and I have a ham licence no less...)

                    I think the reciever would be a problem with the radio.. and the fact that the breach is a tiny/funny shaped place to try to contain radio waves... (this one seems more and more dream on as I think about it..)

                    Maybe it depends on the polarization of the transmitter.

                    Something in my head is sticking on field sensors. You've made some passing mention of "non metallic proximity" sensors... What light can you shine on that subject?
                    Last edited by nerobro; 08-22-2002, 09:11 PM.
                    To be an AGD supporter, one cannot be an AGD bigot. -Nero

                    Truth is a complex thing. One must govern by simplicity. -M. Mercier, special counsel to his Majesty for domestic matters. The Brotherhood of the Wolf

                    "You can't outrun Death forever, but you can make the bastard work for it."

                    Comment

                    • nasprouse
                      Registered User
                      • Jul 2002
                      • 9

                      #11
                      Tom,

                      If you are looking for nonlight activated ACE you should try the QPROX 110 series chip. It is a low cost proximity device. I have used it on several projects with great results. It is very simply to hookup, self adjusting, and costs less than $3.00.

                      Here is a link to their site:


                      Neal

                      Comment

                      • AGD
                        The man from AGD

                        • Oct 2000
                        • 5916

                        #12
                        Nasprouse,

                        Those proxes, do they detect proximity or touch? It looks like they use them for flat pannel keyboards. Any info appreciated.

                        Thanks

                        AGD
                        sigpic

                        Comment

                        • BlackVCG
                          Grubby Owner

                          • Oct 2000
                          • 4956

                          #13
                          They're just high sensitivity touch sensors. Seems to me like just a different way to do a COPS system.
                          My Feedback

                          Comment

                          • nerobro
                            Registered User
                            • Oct 2001
                            • 923

                            #14
                            here's a part number for a capacitive proximity sensor.. it's terriably big though. but a sensor such as this put in the breach of the gun would allow you to know a ball was 3mm above the breach floor.....

                            *edit: It appears that my search was part of a cookie on my machine, when 314159 went to see the part he saw something cached on his computer. I'll post a better link this evening*
                            Last edited by nerobro; 08-21-2002, 11:29 AM.
                            To be an AGD supporter, one cannot be an AGD bigot. -Nero

                            Truth is a complex thing. One must govern by simplicity. -M. Mercier, special counsel to his Majesty for domestic matters. The Brotherhood of the Wolf

                            "You can't outrun Death forever, but you can make the bastard work for it."

                            Comment

                            • 314159
                              Registered User
                              • Nov 2001
                              • 555

                              #15
                              while having the sensor at the bottom of the breech is nice for vertical feed. i just think that having it in the bottom of the center of the breech has room for improvement for a warp feed breech.
                              As society and the problems that face it become more and more complex and machines become more and more intelligent, people will let machines make more of their decisions for them, simply because machine-made decisions will bring better results than man-made ones. Eventually a stage may be reached at which the decisions necessary to keep the system running will be so complex that human beings will be incapable of making them intelligently. At that stage the machines will be in effective control. People won't be able to just turn the machines off, because they will be so dependent on them that turning them off would amount to suicide

                              sometimes I just freaking hate people. which means the next day I will love them for the sake of balance, but right now I will just concentrate on the hating. Hate hate hate. Blaaaarg! ;)

                              turborev - with ai like this, if it controlled any more than a paddle, it would kill you and everyone you care about. ;)

                              Comment

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