Automag Reg recharge rates...

[tommyd46290]

can't seem to find them on my own but maybe it's because im feeble minded. I am looking for a dyno of the recharge rate of the mag regulator in comparison to other tanks/inline regs. I recall Have Blue doing something of this nature a while back on the guild but i can't find anything there either. Maybe a little help or maybe there isn't a AGD reg dyno and their should be just a thought

[AGD]

Its so radically different most people would not believe its true so I am hesitant to post them.

AGD

[Crimson_Turkey]

We all have blind, cult-like faith in you Tom.

[tommyd46290]

hehehehe i wanna see them! I love to prove people my mag is better!!!

[Redkey]

afraid to post data because people wouldn't believe it? If ever there was confusing data it would have been the spin photos... look at the interesting conversation that lead to.

Is there a link showing a diagram of a mag valve and how it works?

thanks

[tommyd46290]

hey would you link me to the spin photo thread? i must have missed that one.

[Magluvr]

Originally posted by AGD
Its so radically different most people would not believe its true so I am hesitant to post them.

AGD

Please, Tom?

[Darthmal2086]

This is interesting. TOM???

I'm strongly interested.. I dont know how much this goes with the actuall question, but I heard that the stock AIR valve could recharge the dump chamber up to 18shot, or cycles. per second. before it got serious droppoff in velocity. I dont know how true this is, but I do know iv hit about 8-9 shots a second without any drop off with my stock AIR valve. So i KNOW it can handle that much. REDKEY: about the pictures, download a mag operators manual, it has a black and white picture of the valve. If you take apart your gun you can clearly see how it operates from the picture. Start with the intake hole(air) and move your way threough the pic, it'll come 2 yah. Anyways im outa here. Ill be waiting for Tom to come back and answer our Q's. Seyall in the chat.

[athomas]

Originally posted by AGD
Its so radically different most people would not believe its true so I am hesitant to post them.

AGD

Who cares what others think. Others also think that closed bolt guns shoot farther. Others also think mags aren't capable of being a high end marker.

We here at AO know better. I think we can handle the real truth and are the ones to spread the reality to the masses.

[AGD]

Against my better judgement I posted them in the data thread. If this starts causing me problems I am going to delete them.

AGD

[bjjb99]

Fascinating data as always, Tom. Thanks for posting it.

In trying to get a handle on what each graph means, I am curious as to the location of the pressure sensor used to gather the data you provided. Am I correct in assuming that the sensor is placed downstream of the regulator, so what we're seeing is the pressure inside the dump chamber during a firing cycle?

I can definitely see the RT style valve's heat related increase in pressure after recharge. From the "RT runaway" graph, it looks like the pressure increase due to heat levels off pretty quickly... almost completely after the second shot, so that you don't end up continually getting more and more pressure during rapid fire. Sounds like pretty good heat sinking to me.

With regards to the "popular tournament gun" graph that spans 10 seconds, is that noise from the pressure sensor or am I seeing some strange large scale oscillations in the reg?

BJJB

[tommyd46290]

so if i am reading this right (most of the graphs) every hundred on th x-axis is 11 milliseconds? Some how that doesn't see right no me but maybe its just me.

1000 MS = 1 second = 9000 on the graph correct? so the mag reg rcharge time is

looks like about 44ms recharge time aprox. right? give or take thats drawing a few lines in paint and guessing.

So basically from shot to recharge you lose about 400 psi in the chamber (assuming that is where the sensor is) and you get it back and then sum in 44ms. Am I reading this stuff right or what?

I am one to always want more so forgive me if it's too much to ask Tom but think you got a dyno of the rt shooting at the 26 bps?

Thats all I have for now thanks for the current graphs they sure are helpful.

Tommyd
"She's a brick...House"

[AGD]

The sensor is directly in the dump chamber on the RT. For the tournament gun its in the asa that the vert reg screws into. The hammer valve chamber is still farther down stream.

Yes the thickness of the black line is noise just disregard it.

Yes every 100 counts in the one second span graphs is 11 ms.

There are more graphs in the subdirectory link.

AGD

[tommyd46290]

Yeah i saw thoose did't think the runaway RT for 2 shots really looked like 26 cps. Looked more aroud 14-15. Let's see if i can con you into posting your 4000th post here

[bjjb99]

I think the recharge time is the time from the bottom of the curve, just before the upward slope, to the top of the curve, just after the upward slope. The downward sloping portion of the pressure curve is the release of gas down the barrel of the marker, and is decoupled from the regulator courtesy of the on/off pin. So the point in each of the Mag pressure graphs at which the trigger is released is just before the pressure curve starts coming back up.

Looking at the leftmost fire/recharge cycle in the file retro950bp.tif, it appears that the time to recharge the dump chamber is around 26 milliseconds (starting around count 3060 and going to count 3300... 240 counts at 11 milliseconds per hundred = 26.4 milliseconds). This, I believe, is the actual valve/dump chamber recharge time.

Also from the same image, it looks like the spacing between the two shots (measured from where the valve begins to recharge during each firing cycle) is around 46 milliseconds. That works out to almost 22 firing cycles per second.

BJJB