Z.I.P.P. bolt that creats "M" effect?

[Bubonic Plauge]

I was just checking out the July issue of APG and saw an article about this Z.I.P.P. 2K Cycleflow bolt for cockers and angels. Now, I know this is a magazine laden with marketing ploys, but the idea still seemed thought provoking. The idea is the bolt has three holes on the bottom, as opposed to an evenly spaced venturi style. Though the article makes no claims as to what degree the magnus effect takes place, it does mention it as a "flatline" bolt.

/dodge marketing bashes

Does anyone have any experience with one of these or know anything about them?

My guess is IF backspin does occur, it would not be enough, and still render the balls under the vortex effect.
/shrug

CraigEgg

[GatoLoco]

sounds like the undertow bolt, which sounds like bolts made about 10 years ago. When my friend tests his undertow, we'll see if it works

[Wat]

undershot

I actually run a cooper t undershot bolt on my cocker. Its got a centre cut hole and a hole cut on the bottom. The only reason i run it is because its a spare parts cocker and it was the only bolt i could find.

From my experience, the bolt shoots no better or worse than any other. It is completely unnoticeable, hell, i didn't even know what the bolt was until some oldie pointed it out to me.

[Catch22]

Yeah sounds like undertow to me...

http://imperialpaintball.com/index....24908&pageid=60

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=70407&highlight=undertow

[joeyjoe367]

Any straight-barreled backspin system requires a loose barrel so that the friction doesn't eliminate the spin.

Have you guys tried your backspin bolts with uber-loose paint?

[Wat]

Years ago i tried some All Star through a lapco bigshot and my undershot bolt. Velocity was too eratic over the chrono and my experiment ended there.

[-=Squid=-]

There is no way for it to add enough backspin to increase range. It may however up the velocity, increasing range, therefor increasing air efficiency.

[shinobidice]

you mean decrease air efficency right?

[-=Squid=-]

Originally posted by shinobidice
you mean decrease air efficency right?

No. If it increases range, the velocity goes up, so you can turn the velocity down, therefore not requiring as much gas to propell the ball.

[jinxed]

Have you guys tried your backspin bolts with uber-loose paint?

Thats the most important part.

I've used the Cooper-T bolts in cockers, sterlings, and VM68s.

THey work IDENTICAL to the flatline, as long as the paint is undersized. So, if your barrels is .690, then you need to use .682-684 paint.

The Cooper-T bolt is patented I think? It might explain why its the only real flatline-type bolt on the market.

It totally baffles me why anyone why buy a flatline barrel for a cocker when they can just use the bolt.

Nick

[P8ntballnRyan]

undertow knock off....and yes...the undertow works as stated and is worth every penny.

[Miscue]

Originally posted by -=Squid=-


No. If it increases range, the velocity goes up, so you can turn the velocity down, therefore not requiring as much gas to propell the ball.

Doesn't work that way... conservation of energy.

A 300 fps ball with spin has more energy than a 300fps ball w/o spin. That extra energy translates to some range...

If you used the energy for spin... and used it towards velocity... you'd be shooting over 300fps.

[hardr0ck68]

i could be wrong here, but isnt deep blue for dispelling hearsay, and marketing? to me it sounds like this thread has done nothing towards prooving or disproving this (these) products. could someone who owns or can borrow one of these bolts test it with different sized paint/barrels (from small/small to large/small to small/large and large/large) using a chronograph to record velocties and then measure to the ball for distance.... now their are still many factors (like wind, elevation, humidity and whatnot) that this is not taking into effect, but that expariment i proposed will give a pretty good idea if this (these) work or are bunk. but any i heard/my friend told me statements DO NOT BELONG IN DEEP BLUE head on over to the main forum with them.

[SlartyBartFast]

Originally posted by Miscue


Doesn't work that way... conservation of energy.

A 300 fps ball with spin has more energy than a 300fps ball w/o spin. That extra energy translates to some range...

If you used the energy for spin... and used it towards velocity... you'd be shooting over 300fps.

I'll agree that speaking purely from an energy stand point, the spinning ball has more energy. But how on earth does this translate into range?

300 fps with or without spin is still a 300 fps shot. Any gained range would only be due to aerodynamic forces if the spin is correct (otherwise it will hook or slice).

It is NOT a tranfer of enregy to distance.

[jinxed]

I'll agree that speaking purely from an energy stand point, the spinning ball has more energy. But how on earth does this translate into range?

Magnus Force-

This is the same exact effect used to make golf balls go farther, and baseballs curve.

A spinning sperical object generates "magnus" effect, which has 2 properties.
1- "pull". For a backspin, it pulls away from gravity
2- "less drag". Which means farther range.

The only barrel that does this is the Flatline.
The only bolt that does this is the CooperT bolt.
Both are patented. (The undertow does NOT do this).

I bought my backspin bolt in 1992, and used it for 10 years on a variety of guns. I probobly have more experience then anyone. What I've learned is that it increases maximum range about 100 feet. It also increases point-blank range, but reduces accuracy, so effective range is decreased.
Its also more paint senstive, which makes it unsutable for tournaments.

-Nick