Air flow paths and efficiency

**Redkey** · 08-07-2003, 02:07 AM

what about this...

perhaps if your marker was designed differently to eliminate the "maze" your shot count would go up by 50. Eliminating the air flow though the valve could get you another 25 shots. Who knows.

What kind of marker are you using?

**Natural Newbie** · 08-07-2003, 08:14 AM

The one pictured. So your saying that a bad air flow path, may only affect your total shot-per-tank count by 50-100 shots?

I'm just really interested in how my marker, and a shocker can both have bad "piping" but have to totaly different enerygy used per shot. I calculated mine to be about 190 in*lb

**Redkey** · 08-07-2003, 10:46 AM

Sorry, but I don't know what kind of gun that is. Please excuse my ignorance.

50 to 100 shots is probably an overestimate if you are just considering flow paths. There are so many different variables involved in this it is difficult to say that the flow paths in A make it less efficient than B.

Barrel length, porting, paint size & match to barrel and paint weight will all play a part in the shot count.

The mechanics of the gun will have the largest effect on the shot count. The re-cocking method, type of valve, size of dump chamber etc anything in the gun that needs compressed air to move... or anywhere in the gun where compressed air flows will effect the overall shot count.

I would *guess* that the biggest waste factor comes from excess air needed to propel the paintball down the barrel.

**Natural Newbie** · 08-07-2003, 11:21 AM

That marker is one of my Tippmann 98 customs.

yea I see what your saying. I was just confused on how a cheap rental marker with bad airflow paths can be efficient.

**sharpshooter1286** · 08-09-2003, 08:02 AM

btw, very nice tippy

**314159** · 08-09-2003, 05:03 PM

i think that ".....flow energy loss due to change in direction in the air flow.It's all about flow loss due to restrictions and orface changes and turblance." only pertains to air after the valve. if air is not used before the valve, it is not wasted, it is contributed to the air allowed for the next shot.

**Wat** · 08-10-2003, 01:26 AM

The actual term is "head loss" and it exists in any plumbing, basically friction, and it includes straight pipes as well as any bends or kinks and even before the valve where its pressurized. Imagine putting 10psi into a mile long straw, you won't feel it on the other end. But, considering the relatively large pressures involved in paintball and the relatively short and small passages, its negligable.

You're barrel and your paint to barrel match will have a 100x greater impact on efficency than your plumbing route.

**Redkey** · 08-10-2003, 02:17 AM

actually...

If you were to put 10 psi in a mile long tube it would read 10 psi at the opposite end. However, if you are trying to get 10 psi of air at X cubic feet per minute then your input pressure will need to be higher than 10 psi. More cfm = faster flow = more loss = higher input pressure.

Because the flow in a pb gun is not continuous it makes calculating the loss quite difficult.

**Natural Newbie** · 08-11-2003, 11:46 AM

Ahh I see now. Ya I have noticed if my paint/barrel match is poor my efficiency really drops. Thanks for clearing some things up.

**athomas** · 08-13-2003, 08:20 AM

Redkey mentions a very valid point that I too will reiterate. All the air lines leading up to the valve do not affect efficiency but do affect performance by means of reducing recharge rate. This is a form of inefficiency although it can't be measured in shots per amount of air. It can be measured in volume of air per time.

The restrictions in the valve where the air is delivered to the ball and the recocking of the gun has a major affect on the efficiency. Different guns have different rates at which the air is delivered to the ball. The length of barrel can be adapted to the gun to get the maximum effectiveness of that air to maximize efficiency. The quicker the air can be delivered, the shorter the barrel needed and the greater the efficiency of your gun to a point.

As stated previously, a good paint to barrel match and reduced barrel porting helps reduce wasted air.

**Wat** · 08-13-2003, 06:02 PM

Redkey,

Let me clarify, the mile long straw in my example is openended thus putting in +10psi in one end would create a pressure differential and create flow. However, 10psi is not enough pressure to overcome the head loss in a mile lone straw and thus no flow would be detected on the other end and thus no pressure differential could be detected on the other end.

the air lines have to effect efficiency. Air lines = friction, some more than others. More friction = less efficiency.

**athomas** · 08-13-2003, 07:11 PM

There will be air flow at the end of 1 mile of a straw, just not very much. In fact if there were no leaks, all the air would eventually flow out the open end in the event that the supply of 10 psi was removed and a check valve prevented reverse flow. All the air would be available for use if you had a use for it at a reduced flow rate.

If you were to block off the end of the straw at 1 mile, then eventually the straw would reach 10psi. If you then opened the end, the 10 psi would be available to do work until the flow couldn't meet demand and the pressure would decrease at the open end.

Air flow paths and efficiency

Air flow paths and efficiency

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