solenoid in paintbal marker

[Methylphenidate]

if i understand this correctly the solenoid in our paintball markers is just a small magnetised air valve.
so then why is it that we have these valves operate pneumatic rams that violently open other air valves.
wouldnt it be possible to scrap all previous presedent and and make a marker that simply uses one big solenoid to release air down the bolt and fire a paintball

[Nomad]

I think it has something to do with the fact that as you increase solenoid size you also increase the force needed to move the solenoid. The E-mag uses a 18 volt battery that operates a solenoid that only pulls 3 or 4 pounds of force and that's to pull the sear.

[paintballman_13]

i think

i think he means no moving parts at all. just a valve that allows air into the bolt.

[Nomad]

... Oooooooooo-kay??? A solenoid for a valve?





Methylphenidate could you please rephrase yourself with some punctuation please? It would make trying to figure this out a little easier if we knew exactly what we're trying to figure out.

[Methylphenidate]

sorry about that guys if i wasnt clear.
but ya paintballman_13 hit it on the head.
no moving parts, well the bolt could move possibly on a spring like the mag bolts.
but the rest of it would just be one big solenoid that dumps air down the bolt.

is that more clear????

[paintballman_13]

the...

the problem is when the air is released alot of its force goes out of the breech. the point of the moving bolt(i think) is to push the ball infront of the breech so the air only has one way to go.

[Methylphenidate]

yes yes yes
but forget the bolt for now, for our purposes here the bolt does not exist there is no bolt.
what i want to know about is the valve.

[athomas]

Most solenoids with a small current rating can't hold back the full pressure that would be present in a valve chamber.

[Methylphenidate]

ya but if thats the only part couldnt you just make it killer low pressure

[athomas]

The actual force applied is directly related to the (area x pressure). You can reduce the pressure, but then you must have a large opening (area) for the air to flow through. The result is that you still need a solenoid that requires a lot of power to push or hold that pressure.

[Methylphenidate]

alright busting out the physics equations. Thats good i like that it tells me your actually thiinking about this.
however the important thing is that you give the paintball some velocity. whats important is the value of the impulse(the average force multiplied by the time interval of action) so like i said before, make it killer low pressure. so, lowering the pressure will will inturn lower our impulse. how do we fix this? by increasing the time(in paintball terms the dwell)
solution keep the solenoid open slightly longer.

[athomas]

You could increase the dwell. The peak preasure to start the motion will almost always be the same. Its the ability of the flow of the valve to keep up with the movement of the ball that makes a valve efficient though. Otherwise, the increased dwell will allow additional air that will only marginally increase velocity. It will, however, contribute to the additional air that flows out the end of the barrel which is a big inefficiency.

Its this air flow ability that makes the marker perform. The air must be available for propulsion at the beginning of the movement of the ball. This time frame is very tiny. Dwell will increase velocity only if the air flow can keep up to the ball.

Also, the peak pressure to propel a ball to 300 fps is around 60 - 90 psi. Even at 60 psi if only 60 psi is available behind the valve, the force acting on the solenoid would be quite significant. The solenoid valve would have to be quite robust and would quite possibly require a large operating current to turn it on.

[Methylphenidate]

dude
the solenoid in my friends timmy can take 85psi safely and that runs on a nine volt
if you were to throw a battery like the one on an emag.
which i beleive is 18, correct me if im wrong. but the way you are describing it the tolerance of 85 psi would then be increased because a greater charge going to the solenoid increases its tolerance to pressure.

[Big_Chops]

tim we are going to have a long talk about this because i don't understand some of it

[Methylphenidate]

will do brandon ill explain it on the 14 at pbsams.
see now you have to come
now get outta here you Post Whore