Another version of the ULT ?

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Skoad
    Registered User
    • Feb 2002
    • 3265

    #1

    Another version of the ULT ?

    Ok this could be just the "no sleep and its 7 am" talking but here we go.

    First off, I know very little about physics, friction, pressures, etc....and it probably shows. Also I really wish I had an updated diagram of the insides of one of todays xvalves instead of this old RT with banjo bolt. I don't know if I got the understandings of how the mag works right, so this may be way off.

    With that in mind!
    --------

    From what I understand the resistance with the trigger pull is the on/off pin. Now if I'm understanding this right, even with the ULT, there is still a force being exerted downward. There is still gas pushing on the top of the on/off pin in order to reset it and close off the airway. I have marked this with a red arrow.


    So why not eliminate the gas pushing down on the on/off

    Here is what I'm thinking.


    First off there is a hole through the entire valve. Now air comes through the middle from the regulator (red arrow). When the trigger is at rest, the on/off pin is open, letting air pass through due to the much smaller diameter of on/off pin (air passes on either side of it), just like a normal on/off.The on/off pen is threaded on the bottom and screws into the sear, this is what will force the airway to close.


    When the trigger is pulled the back end of the sear lifts up, pushing the on/off pin upwards. When this happens the larger diameter area on the pin is moved up and blocks the airway. And of course the bolt is released at the same time causing the marker to cycle. When the bolt returns to its starting position it pushes on the sear like normal and locks back into place, causing the on/off pin to return to its downward starting point.


    After thinking about all that, I rememberd that you cannot get the valve out of the body if there is an on/off pin through the entire thing. So thats why I made it thread into the sear. The green thing at the top is just a plug (much like a matrix backplug). Unscrew the plug and you have access to the on/off pin at the top (by the way the plug is hollow on the inside, like a soda bottle cap, so the on/off pin has room to move upwards inside it). I have the top of the on/off pin reverse threaded so that you are able to unscrew it from the sear by use of a tool...something like a cocker rod. Just screw on the tool, pull upwards and the pin comes out, and your able to remove the valve from the marker.

    Purple things are orings.


    tell me what you think? It's a really dumb idea right? I just started thinking of this when I was wondering how a solenoid valve would work out in a mag and where to put it. I guess you could wire it up for a solenoid with a piston to control it, if they make them that small and shape.
    Last edited by Skoad; 07-01-2004, 07:47 AM.
  • bertmcmahan
    Not pop, it's all Coke
    • Jan 2002
    • 1960

    #2
    That looks pretty good to me, however I would worry about the pin getting stuck in the "Up" position. You might need to like precharge that space (if it's airtight, I couldn't really tell) with some gas to have a force pushing down on it, or maybe a spring or a pair of magnets (like the magnetic detents). Good design, I think (lol it's late here too :))
    AIM-bertmcmahan
    My email:[email protected]
    My feedback thread
    Good traders: richie,Roguefactor,moufo48,845,brtncstm160,vf-xx

    Mags don't shoot darts... they shoot nails.
    I used to be bertmcmahan, that I did.

    Comment

    • Dayspring
      aka- The Day Wang

      • May 2001
      • 9664

      #3
      Couple of problems-

      In the real mag, the bolt coming back doesn't do anything to lock the sear back in place. It's still the air pressing on the on/off that forces the sear to swing. The RT valve diagram you have is REALLY close to how the Xvalve one works. By removing the air chamber going to the top of the on/off pin, you've essentially made this thing a classic valve. (Based on my understanding of how the valve works)

      You're also over-complicating the system here...

      Comment

      • ß?µ£ §mµ®ƒ
        University of Rochester
        • Aug 2003
        • 1012

        #4
        why change something that works?
        • AGD "Yea well our intention is to
          take over the world....one country at a time..... :)"

        • Rt Pro X Valved Warp fed My Rtp
        • Props to Echo for the sig

        Comment

        • Skoad
          Registered User
          • Feb 2002
          • 3265

          #5
          well I was just thinking why the emag needs such a large battery. I remember saying it takes a power hungry monster solenoid to fire it... If you lightened it up you could maybe run it off a 9 volt. And they say you can't with a ULT because the ULT is too slow

          Comment

          • athomas
            Of course it works-its AGD
            • Jan 2002
            • 8039

            #6
            Also, the larger section of the on/off top wouldn't be able to seal the regulator from the chamber and therefore wouldn't be an on/off at all.

            There are some major flaws in the change of design, but the theory behind it looks good.

            The design did give me a couple of ideas though. I'm gonna think on them for a bit.
            Except for the Automag in front, its usually the man behind the equipment that counts.

            Comment

            • Skoad
              Registered User
              • Feb 2002
              • 3265

              #7
              I think I know what you mean. So what if there was another oring similar to the red one, but on top, and of course big enough for the pin to slide up into.

              also I'm pretty sure the spring pushing on the bolt pushing on the sear is enough to reset the whole system. I don't have mag right now but from what I remember the bolt will slide along the slanted edge of the sear until it gets to the little cutout part where it locks into place.


              You can't put a spring or magnet to reset the on/off...that defeats my whole purpose of thinking this up. I'm trying to get rid of any pressure that is exerting a downward force on the on/off pin. This way a solenoid doesn't have to work as hard, and a smaller more power concious setup can be used.

              And I think this would pretty much eliminate "reactivity." While the rt valves are made for that, it's purpose wouldn't be needed in an electro version.

              Comment

              • athomas
                Of course it works-its AGD
                • Jan 2002
                • 8039

                #8
                The bolt provides no resetting force for the mag.

                The problem with the on/off you are showing is that it can't shut off the airflow. There is no way to provide a seal on the side of a cyclinder only around it.
                Except for the Automag in front, its usually the man behind the equipment that counts.

                Comment

                • Skoad
                  Registered User
                  • Feb 2002
                  • 3265

                  #9
                  ? Then how did it seal before?

                  Comment

                  • athomas
                    Of course it works-its AGD
                    • Jan 2002
                    • 8039

                    #10
                    The retro valve feeds the front chamber from the top of the on/off pin, not the side. The air passage through the side is for pressure feedback to the regulator. That is how the retro valve is able to fill with high pressure air, but shut off at a lower pressure.
                    Except for the Automag in front, its usually the man behind the equipment that counts.

                    Comment

                    • 11_Mile_TMaster
                      Registered User
                      • Dec 2002
                      • 230

                      #11
                      Umm... I could be wrong... as I have not taken a fluid dynamics course...

                      But I don't believe that the air pressure in question is actually DOING anything. Yes, it's ~400-650 PSI in there at the time the dump chamber is charged... like the rest of the system. Since the pressure is EQUALIZED, there's no real 'force' coming from there.

                      That's why the RT Kicks back down, in my understanding... because then there's no pressure left in the dump chamber, hence a pressure difference, hence force pushing your Pin down.

                      I could be totally wrong, though.
                      Automag RT-Pro
                      68 Classic
                      BE 1999 Rainmaker
                      PMI Trracer
                      So many guns, So little time.

                      Comment

                      • Dayspring
                        aka- The Day Wang

                        • May 2001
                        • 9664

                        #12
                        Actually, when firing a ball, there will be a residual 50psi left in the dump chamber.

                        Comment

                        • 11_Mile_TMaster
                          Registered User
                          • Dec 2002
                          • 230

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Dayspring
                          Actually, when firing a ball, there will be a residual 50psi left in the dump chamber.
                          I stand corrected.

                          Still, 50PSI versus 800 PSI...
                          Automag RT-Pro
                          68 Classic
                          BE 1999 Rainmaker
                          PMI Trracer
                          So many guns, So little time.

                          Comment

                          Working...