spool-valve/ level 10 hybrid gun idea

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  • charlie hp
    Registered User
    • Aug 2004
    • 8

    #1

    spool-valve/ level 10 hybrid gun idea

    Hi all. My first time posting in deep blue. I would like to make and post a sketch, but I don't know what software to use to draw or how to get the picture hosted.

    First of all, let me say that I'm a total noob and theres a good chance that every statement I make is technically incorrect. For example, a spool valves and level 10 might work totally different then I think they do. I am working completely off what I see in those animations that the kind in the paintball community make. So if I misinterpreted any of them then I'm sure that my design is completely invalidated.

    Annyway I'll try to explain as well as I can in words:

    Try to have a picture in your head of how a spool valve works. One of the characteristics of a spool-valve is that the air in the dump chamber doesn't have surface area on the bolt to work against to move the bolt forward. Thats what I would change, giving a little bit of surface area for air to work against so there is a little pressure on the bolt to move forward. This is how its like level 10- the air in the dump chamber is moving the bolt forward, but relatively slowly and with little force as to not break any paint.

    Now, seeing as how the bolt is being moved FORWARD by energy from the pressurized air in the dump chamber, it needs a way to be moved BACKWARD. In a regular spool valve, theres some sort of contraption (which, by the way, I don't understand) that dumps one chamber and pressurizes another to move the bolt forward, and the same with opposite chambers to move the bolt backwards. Anyways, in my design you only need one chamber (for clarity I'll call it the "return chamber". Pressurizing the chamber pushes the bolt back, venting it allows the pressure from air in the dump chamber to move the bolt forward.

    If the bolt is pinching a ball, all that would be needed to be done to reset the bolt is for the return chamber to be resealed and repressurized. The air in the return chamber will be able to overcome the air in the dump chamber pushing forward because it will be working against more surface area.

    I'll summarize the action of this paintgun, and for clarity, a trigger that is not pulled is in the "ready" position, pulled is in the "pulled" position:
    1: Trigger is at ready position, return chamber is sealed and pressurized. The dump chamber is fully pressurized but is still connected to its air source directly.
    2: Trigger is pulled, dumping the return chamber, allowing the bolt to move forward, which seals the dump chamber from its air source. One the bolt passes the feed neck, air shoots the ball out of the paintgun in the same way as any other paintgun.
    3: Trigger is released back to the ready position, sealing and pressurizing the return chamber, forceing the bolt back to its return position where the dump chamber is again refilled.

    One advantage I think this design has is that it allows you to remove the LPR from the spool-valve design while still have an extremely effective mechanical anti-chop solution. In a matrix for example an LPR is used because otherwise the forward action of one of the return chambers would crush the paintball. With this design, a setup similar to level 10, in other words a minimization of the area that the air was working against, would prevent balls from breaking.

    More importantly imo, this gun features all the great characteristics of a spool-valve- incomparable consistancy, low recoil, and fast recharging, with some of the great characteristics of mags- anti-chop without an LPR, and ease of shooting mechanically. By that I mean, if you were to operate this gun without any electricity it would be extremely easy- pulling the trigger would slide a small block. In the ready position, the block would be a direct connection between the air supply and the return chamber. When pulled, the block would slide to a position that would dump the return chamber into the atmosphere. It would be easy for this gun to match, say, the performance of the hAIR trigger mechanically, while hopefully providing better consistency because it doesn't use any springs...

    well thats the idea.
  • GoatBoy
    Junior Mint
    • Jun 2003
    • 1399

    #2
    Ow. My brain.
    "Accuracy by aiming."


    Definitely not on the A-Team.

    Comment

    • Couponqueen89
      AKA Couponqueen89
      • Jun 2003
      • 1571

      #3
      go for it.
      Team Lockout Freeflow Racegun FST! Trust.
      AIR

      Comment

      • Dayspring
        aka- The Day Wang

        • May 2001
        • 9664

        #4
        You still need to think about orings and how they work under pressure. (Be it a static or a dynamic oring.)

        Removing the LPR is a bad idea...

        And I see this system to be incredibly inefficient.

        Comment

        • charlie hp
          Registered User
          • Aug 2004
          • 8

          #5
          You would definately have to contend with a lot of o-rings.

          But removing the LPR should be fine because the forward motion of the bolt is dealt with in a manner similar to level 10, where the bolt only will have a small amount of force behind it.

          I see no reason that this system couldn't be just as efficient as other spool valve guns... Matricies and Shockers with Evolve kits get 1700-1800 shots off a 68/45... about double that of an automag.

          Comment

          • Dayspring
            aka- The Day Wang

            • May 2001
            • 9664

            #6
            Without an LPR on a spool valve gun, you have a much bigger chance of FSDO (First shot drop off) because of what the air pressure is doing to the orings. Dropping the pressure on them with the LPR helps over-come this, however proper design will do that too. That's why Tom's Level 10 system works the way it does without an LPR.



            Originally posted by charlie hp
            You would definately have to contend with a lot of o-rings.

            But removing the LPR should be fine because the forward motion of the bolt is dealt with in a manner similar to level 10, where the bolt only will have a small amount of force behind it.

            I see no reason that this system couldn't be just as efficient as other spool valve guns... Matricies and Shockers with Evolve kits get 1700-1800 shots off a 68/45... about double that of an automag.

            Comment

            • eddie885221
              Registered User
              • Oct 2003
              • 130

              #7
              it seems like the way ur sayin it is that right when u let go of the trigger the bolt will return, which means if u pull it fast enough the bolt will not completely seal the chamber and fire the ball, actually other than that technical parts it sounds like a 'cocker, when u pull it shoots, and then u let go and it closes, so maybe it can be set up for timing, i dont know im only a sophmore in highschool so i dont know much about this


              X-valved minimag with ult and blade intelliframe
              10 inch aci zero gravity barrel
              black warp
              halo tsa frontman
              68/5000 pmi nitro
              cp flame drop and on/off


              Stewie is my hero

              Comment

              • SniperSmurf
                Now I have a machine gun..
                • Jun 2004
                • 502

                #8
                Check out the Assault 80 with the 2 stage bolt for some ideas. It's already pretty much a "spool-valve/ level 10 hybrid".

                Comment

                • PBX Ronin 23
                  Registered User
                  • Jul 2004
                  • 518

                  #9
                  We are actually toying around the idea of putting one of our mQ-Valves into spool-type valve that would fit in a Mag Body. It would allow for an E-frame kit version for a Mag that would keep the frame pretty much the size of what the Intelliframe is now. Board and battery fiiting all in one small package.

                  We have been able to get the mQ-Valve to cycle in the +50cps range and when we platformed it on a Cocker, we were able to get 36-bps (with the loader being the main problem at that ROF). Perhpas if we were to incorporate this new technology for platforming on a Mag, an LPR wouldn't be a necessity.

                  Technically, this is one of those challenges that lights a fire with my crew. It's one of the projects that we would like to fully undertake once we release our initial product at World Cup.
                  /s/ Mel C. Maravilla
                  PBX Battlezone
                  PBX Paintball Station Inc.
                  PBX Ballistix Lab
                  PBX@NYC Paintball

                  Comment

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