Delron barrel

[Miscue]

If force of friction and barrel to paint bore size are the real only things that matter in barrel accuracy then why not a barrel made of delron or a aluminum barrel with delron inserts of some sort? Wouldnt that work better then aluminum for the same reasons that steel works better then aluminum? (because steels FOF is better then aluminums) One would think that plastics like delron which have much less FOF then aluminum would make better barrels.

Because the friction from the barrel is negligible. A paintball is a gelatin ball that is often a little greasy on the outside.

When you take the net result of the barrel's friction and the ball - a slicker barrel material will make virtually no difference.

What about dry paint you ask?
Same situation really... I doubt a gelatin shell has a high coefficient of friction. But another point is... when you look at the drag created by barrel friction as compared to the force from the air blast - the air blast completely dwarfs whatever amount friction there is - making friction negligible.

There might be an issue on how well ball breaks clean or something, I dunno.

Remember folks... teflon doesn't get slick as advertised until heat and pressure is applied!

[Virem]

If the right bore size is a snug fit friction has to matter... even the slightest diffrence in friction could make a big diffrence in the shot?

[chaos lichen]

I thought that was Equation's website, it must be down, http://www.pbreview.com/products/man/96/ is all of their stuff on PBR. They are based out of Pheonix so I have seen their products. They're pretty nice.

[Miscue]

If the right bore size is a snug fit friction has to matter... even the slightest diffrence in friction could make a big diffrence in the shot?

What would friction have to do with the ID of the barrel and the size of the ball? Supposedly, a better paint/barrel fit results in tighter velocity control. I do not think I've even seen a proper explanation as to why this is - or even an empirical test comparing bore sizes. What I have noticed is pro teams using oversized barrels with brittle paint, so as to reduce barrel breaks.

I personally cannot tell the difference when I use an oversized barrel. This is why I no longer buy entire kits, and just get two bore sizes - .689 and .691. The .691 is kind of insurance, in case I'm having trouble with barrel breaks or the paint is abnormally large. If it rolls out the barrel, I don't care. I do not believe that paint/barrel match is as important as professed to be - but it's a great way to sell more barrels.

[Virem]

Tom explains why proper bore matchs are important in detail under his "tech tips" on the AO main page.

[Miscue]

I need to reword what I said. What I meant was, considering all else equal - the coefficient of friction of the barrel material should not matter much at all, keeping in mind that standard materials like aluminum or steel are machined very smooth to begin with. Something more exotic should have little impact.

As far as TK's tip, I had that in mind with my previous post - it's the closest thing to a complete explanation that I've seen.

I'm not in love with the "ricochet" idea - I hesitantly accept it for now because I can't come up with something better. Perhaps TK can provide insight on how this was determined (based exclusively on the "zebra stripes"?), and other possibilities ruled out.

What I don't like is the ball changing direction in the barrel multiple times within a hair of a second - there's a certain amount of impulse time where the wall of the paintball compresses and then releases in the opposite direction. I have no idea what that impulse time is, but it would need to be very fast for this sort of ricochet effect. If it actually does this, it's another extraordinary thing about paintball physics.

[eric1337]

i know this is not technical thoughts but if u made this people would buy it even if it didnt make a difference cuz delrin all the rage even in triggers

[Rokudon]

-true, new materials will sell well as long as the price is acceptable for some sort of a performance increase.
-also to the richochetting(sp?) thing, if you think about it, an oversized barrel againsrt a round object, the air would deflect around it, causing an air cushion (basic principle of hovercraft).
-main reason why i THINK larger bores are more inacurate is because the ball might be sitting along the bottom, air couldnt get under or whatnot, causing it to roll abit before "floating" along. or we could go with palmer's ideals and say that balls widen (due to comression either from gas or the 0-205MPH acceleration) and seal up the barrel menaing large bore is nearly the same as small bore.
-breaks could be from people turning up the pressure too high (no matter what, up to a certain point input pressure WILL affect output, even if it takes a couple dozen psi to move bolt psi by 1) and blasting the ball too hard, to comphensate for the "air cushion", or just making it accelerate too fast breaks it.
-which could bring the point about HP/LV versus LP/HV.... HP systems accelerate quicker, LP systems accel slower... hm....... anyway, miscue, what are you talking about the zebra stripes? those wavy air currents after the ball when it was shot through the smoke?

[Virem]

All things aside, if making a delron barrel is possible, and if delron doesnt swell, and if bore size matters, then the less friction the better and delron has less friction then aluminum... I think it would be at least worth some sort tests

[wolfwood_is_here]

Well, as far as the hovercraft comment, it is not the same. A hovercraft has one surface to push against, the ground. So, the force of the air is perpendicular to the surface and direction the hovercraft is traveling. With a paintball, the air is travelling parallel to both the direction the paintball is travelling and the surface it is in contact with. This means the air is gonna try to get out any way possible, thus causing the "ricochet" effect. The paintball may move +/- .010, not noticeable to the eye, but if the filling changes direction of momentum, then you will see the effect most definitely.

On another note, what about the nylatron stuff I keep hearing about? It is supposed to be like the delrin but is now composited with nylon to help reduce the swelling and absorpsion. I do not really have any personal experience, so I am stabbing in the dark.

The only reason I could see for having something like that would be to have a lighter weighted barrel. I just wouldn't want to have to worry about hitting a bunker at an odd angle and warping the barrel :) Other than that, I think that miscue and all them have it when they say that just having a new surface is gonna make all the difference.

Improve your skills, spend less money on hype, have more fun when mr.hype gets mad.

[Cougar]

I thought that the whole upside of delron was how little friction occurs when it is moving against a metal. I don't think the same principles would work with a paintball. Hey, I'm probably wrong though.

[Cougar]

Well, as far as the hovercraft comment, it is not the same. A hovercraft has one surface to push against, the ground. So, the force of the air is perpendicular to the surface and direction the hovercraft is traveling. With a paintball, the air is travelling parallel to both the direction the paintball is travelling and the surface it is in contact with. This means the air is gonna try to get out any way possible, thus causing the "ricochet" effect. The paintball may move +/- .010, not noticeable to the eye, but if the filling changes direction of momentum, then you will see the effect most definitely.

On another note, what about the nylatron stuff I keep hearing about? It is supposed to be like the delrin but is now composited with nylon to help reduce the swelling and absorpsion. I do not really have any personal experience, so I am stabbing in the dark.

The only reason I could see for having something like that would be to have a lighter weighted barrel. I just wouldn't want to have to worry about hitting a bunker at an odd angle and warping the barrel :) Other than that, I think that miscue and all them have it when they say that just having a new surface is gonna make all the difference.

Improve your skills, spend less money on hype, have more fun when mr.hype gets mad.

There's like one or two small companies that are experimenting with nylatron. My friend has a bolt for his spyder made out of the stuff. from what I can tell, it doesn't swell at all. Thats really the only difference though.

[Rokudon]

actually i think it doe swell, remember reading it somewhere... but its been a while. i think it doesnt go to the same extent as delrin though