Asking input about possible problems

[Meph]

Whenever bored I usually sketch up gun designs, got a couple unique ones from this. But the latest one I did was a mechanical spool valve. Just had to make sure there was a way to shut off the air supply so if the trigger is held forward it won't just bleed out non-stop. Yay.



Overall there's nothing amazing or incredible here. But just looking for a few thoughts to see if there would be any problems with this, besides of course that with a mech 4-way there's always possibility of short stroking.

And figured instead of sketching up some housing for a custom-made ram... toss in a regular cocker one. Would probably make working with those hoses easier this way. Of course it'd have to be secured down, threaded in somewhere. But didn't feel like drawing that. More using it to just illustrate that there's a ram behind moving the bolt.

(And figured while sketching it.... make it look agg! )

[The Action Figure]

neat :)

[justjoshin590]

one thing, what would happen to ball-breaks? i could imagine things getting very messy very fast, butaside from that, very cool! and would it be possable for you to make a animation with someone elses drawings?

[Rokudon]

...nice mech spool valve... but yea, i'd say there'd b a problem with cleaning ball breaks... that should be a problem in my design as well, but i can just shove a pin throuhgh it... but niice....

[Joni]

And then put a hAir or P-blade on this...wohoo!
Very nice design
edit: about the the ball-break issue: That cocker ram has no force to overcome other than drag on orings, so it could be very low pressure, probably making it pinch everything.

[White_Noise]

looks good, only thing i can think of is that you might need a different ram than a cocker ram. you might need either A. a different throw length than a cocker ram, or B. more/less force than a cocker ram. im not sure what the site is, but if you do a search for it on the internet im sure you can find the site for Clippard pneumatcis and get a catalog from them which has lots of different sized rams.

[Meph]

And then put a hAir or P-blade on this...wohoo!
.

Why would a marker that the trigger pull is only activating a mechanical 4-way suddenly need a P-blade or hAir..... which in essence are the same thing? Installing a grip frame that does the same as the stock configuration makes no sense to me.

only thing i can think of is that you might need a different ram than a cocker ram

Yeah it'd definately need it's own custom design, based on bolt travel (probably only a little more than .68" in distance would all that be needed if designed properly). But for ease of illustration that worked for now. I'll sketch up a better illustration another time.

I do agree that a cocker ram's travel would be too long (a stock ram). But of course a little modification could shorten it up to a desired length.


As far as cleaning ball breaks, I'm not going to say "but the ram pressure will be so low it won't chop!" I'm not a spool valve marketing director and I know that even at an extremely low pressure it can still chop. All guns still chop.

However I don't see why cleaning this would be any different than cleaning a Matrix or 03Shocker. Except that this has much less o-rings!

[TheTramp]

The trigger's pivet point is not defined. It looks like you sould use a slider but I guess you could do a hinge as well.

That's an important part.

[wolfwood_is_here]

The biggest difference between his 3-way and a cocker is that this one is behind/in the triggerframe. So the trigger pivot would be the same, hosing would be different, so that is not really a big problem at all.

As for your comment about preventing the marker from leaking out when the trigger is continously being pulled, that is not specifically true. I timed a screenshot as close to the stage where that problem could exist, and it does not, because the chamber that is being released out the barrel is sealed at that point. See:







That chamber is sealed until the bolt resets and the chamber repressurizes. If anything, you could set up the system to use some of the air from the chamber to push the trigger back into place, like having an extra tube set up somewhere to make bounce.

[SlartyBartFast]

Cool idea. I sketched the same thing once, but the Orings were on the outside of the bolt and the barrel bore served as the chamber and was slightly enlarged at one point to allow flow to the front of the bolt (only front section of bolt was hollow).

The only problem I see with this design is that you'd probably need a double O ring at the back to make sure there was no leaking out the back during the cycle.

One HUGE improvement would be to extend the groove on the bolt so that the chamber charges as soon as possible and is sealed off only at the last possible moment. The groove could extend about 3/4 of a ball diameter towards the back.

The maximum cycle rate without shootdown would be HUGE because the chamber would have time to fill whil the bolt is still moving backwards.

But, I'm not sure if realistically that could result in higher rates of fire. The limitation is still how quickly a ball can load in the breech.

Now, to somehow combine this type of design with a blowforward LVL10 type operation.

[the electrician]

that's basically how the newer shockers work.

everything is integrated into the design on them though. oh yeah, they of course use a solenoid valve instead of a mechanical valve for the cylinder control.



check it out here:

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=5642337

[Joni]

Why would a marker that the trigger pull is only activating a mechanical 4-way suddenly need a P-blade or hAir..... which in essence are the same thing? Installing a grip frame that does the same as the stock configuration makes no sense to me.

My thought was that it would be neat to have the short pull of the hair trigger. It would also only use the hairs 3-way, which would make it very simple to install. But moot point I guess, who knows what happens to the hair or p-blade

[SlartyBartFast]

that's basically how the newer shockers work.

That's really cool.

The stock bolt is pretty sad though. But I bet that Bolt has something to do with being able to cheat. (Modifying dwell modifies FPS) I can't believe that a designer would deliberately design something so obviously deficient. (edit: maybe I'm being harsh. But, the design is still stupid and obviously wastes air.)

The Evolve and High efficiency bolts are identical to the design being discussed here.

But that's an AWFUL lot of O-rings.

Wonder if you could put the equivalent of the LVL10 in the middle of the bolt and then only require air from the 3way to move the bolt backwards.

[Enos Shenk]

Looks alot like "project irene" that i drew up about 6 months ago.

go go gadget image:





Too bad it works almost exactly like a matrix, which is patented as the Omega. Every single claim in the patent could be applied to my design.

[11_Mile_TMaster]

That's really cool.

The stock bolt is pretty sad though. But I bet that Bolt has something to do with being able to cheat. (Modifying dwell modifies FPS) I can't believe that a designer would deliberately design something so obviously deficient. (edit: maybe I'm being harsh. But, the design is still stupid and obviously wastes air.)

The Evolve and High efficiency bolts are identical to the design being discussed here.

But that's an AWFUL lot of O-rings.

Wonder if you could put the equivalent of the LVL10 in the middle of the bolt and then only require air from the 3way to move the bolt backwards.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but modifying dwell will likely modify FPS on many guns.