Use of a different gas=better flow?

[ProX9]

Ive always wondered if using a different gas would increase the effieciency and recharge rate of a paintball gun; this relates to chemistry and the equation that a lighter gas will effuse faster then a heavier gas. I.e. using compressed helium instead of compressed air or nitrogen; the helium would effuse at (root 28 / root 4) 5.3/2 so 2.65~ times faster than compressed nitrogen. So why hasnt it been tested? Im guessing it has to do with the pressure that helium becomes liquid, I havent looked up but I will now. Even so, wouldnt it still offer benefits? discuss

[frop]

while it could yield more shots per fill, cost is the kicker. even nitrogen, the most plentiful gas in the atmosphere & a large byproduct of some chemical processes, HPA is still cheaper, where all you need is a good compressor & booster.

[chaos lichen]

http://www.automags.org/forums/showthread.php?t=24945 read this, on the 3rd or forth page there is a lengthy discusion on alternitive gasses for use in paintball.

[Glickman]

while it could yield more shots per fill, cost is the kicker. even nitrogen, the most plentiful gas in the atmosphere & a large byproduct of some chemical processes, HPA is still cheaper, where all you need is a good compressor & booster.

might be misunderstanding you, but nitrogen and hpa is the same thing, just called nitro sometimes because 70% of hpa is nitrogen


getting hydrogen wouldnt be too difficult, as all you need is an electrolysis machine (just 2 probes with two seperate tubes) and water. from that, youll get pure oxygen on one side, and pure hydrogen on the other (and youll get double the hydrogen then oxygen) the hard part is just getting enough so that its compressable

[White_Noise]

yes...hydrogen...so we can all just burn the bunkers down with the flame throwers that our markers would become. propane has been tested, bad results, friction of metal parts caused fires, etc.

nitrogen and hpa are not neccessarily the same thing. yes, air is over 70% nitrogen, however, if you fill your tank from a bulk nitrogen tank, then you will have 100% nitrogen in your tank(assuming it was completely empty to begin with). there are slight differences in the properties of nitrogen vs. compressed air. sprint car racers use nitrogen intead of air in their tires because its less affected by temperature changes than air.

[frop]

it's called nitro, cuz in the beginning, it was nitrogen, not HPA that it was filled with. mag/cocker lover, i know what you mean, I am comparing the cost-effectiveness of nitro & HPA. I don't see any shops filling nitro anymore, I wonder why?(HPA=cheaper)

[White_Noise]

alot of hardware stores and such that fill tanks will have nitrogen instead of hpa becuase its far easier to have the bunk tanks instead of a compressor. it is also cheaper in the short term to run bulk tanks instead of a compressor. one of the things that actually makes the hpa compressors expensive is the fact that they have to include apparatus to remove moisture from the air as its pressurized. imagine if that moisture got inside your tank and started reacting with the metal, extremely bad things could result if moisture got into the tank.

[Mole1119]

I did a study about this in High School about six years ago. I wanted to use Helium instead of HPA because i would give more shots per fill plus make for a lighter tank. I was not able to do any real testing the equipment just wasnt avalible. I ended up sending a proposal to Nitro Duck but nothing turned out with it. The big limitations are that the cost of the gas is to much and the fact that the size of the molecules are alot smaller. The smaller molecules mean that the tolerances in the guns have to be a lot tigheter to keep it from leaking. Although I still wonder what would happen if I filled HPA bottle with helium and but it into my mag.

[frop]

sure, short term, but nitro will kill you in the long run, vs. replacing filters & maintaining a compressor/s

[SlartyBartFast]

I did a study about this in High School about six years ago. I wanted to use Helium instead of HPA because i would give more shots per fill plus make for a lighter tank. I was not able to do any real testing the equipment just wasnt avalible. I ended up sending a proposal to Nitro Duck but nothing turned out with it. The big limitations are that the cost of the gas is to much and the fact that the size of the molecules are alot smaller. The smaller molecules mean that the tolerances in the guns have to be a lot tigheter to keep it from leaking. Although I still wonder what would happen if I filled HPA bottle with helium and but it into my mag.

The helium would probably leak. The seals wouldn't be good enough.

[SSMercury]

And helium flows so easily it sort of just flows AROUND the paintball, without pushing it well. I made a good post about 2 years ago on a similar thread where I listed most gasses people would propose.

[Glickman]

The helium would probably leak. The seals wouldn't be good enough.

asked my chem teacher, and he says the seal tolerances shouldnt be a factor at all.

he said that helium would be actually a very good choice, the only stipulation is that it has to be pure

[sgpyro]

The principle advantage to using helium as opposed to nitrogen would be reduced weight for the same molar quantity of gas (Helium = 8 g/mol, N2 = 28 g/mol), which translates into about a 1:4 weight ratio. The identity of the gas is irrelevant to marker function, meaning that none of them should cause leaky o rings, etc. Although the effusion rate as calculated makes sense, even a very dense gas effuses extremely fast on a time scale relative to the rest of the marker operation. In other words, gas effusion rates should not be a limiting factor in recharge rate of a marker. Anyway, just my two cents worth.