The scientific method for determining the effects of open vs closed bolt

[DaveSM]

For your test marker why wouldn't you use a mechanical cocker that you swtch from closed bolt to open bolt. That way you would get rid of many variables such as consistency being different from marker A to maker B. To do so you only need to reverse the timing and the hses going to the ram. Usually the first action when you pull the trigger is to release the hammer and then activate the ram but you would get ram and then sear. 2 test markers ll in one

[93civiccpe]

*edited*

[SlartyBartFast]

A quote that I love to tell people is that it is better to have people think you a fool, then to open your mouth and confirm it. Don't waste your breath on stupid arguements like this.

You should listen to it yourself. Change your tone and drop the grammar Nazi bit.

The very existence of Deep Blue is so that technical questions aren't just "dropped" or ignored and to explore ways to prove or disprove theories.

[Chris42050]

You should listen to it yourself. Change your tone and drop the grammar Nazi bit.

The very existence of Deep Blue is so that technical questions aren't just "dropped" or ignored and to explore ways to prove or disprove theories.

I couldn't agree with you more. How unnecessary would this forum be if everyone just dropped thier idea's. I get kind of sick of seeing posts where people enter a thread and then try to make everyone stop discussing the thread topic.

[93civiccpe]

Sorry, I wasn't trying to make someone end the thread or stop talking. Johnson88, I apologize on the grammer thing but I had to read it a few times just to try to understand what they were saying, and I got somewhat annoyed. I will handle that differently in the future. There is just already a lot of research out there about this. Plain and simply when it comes to being a real-life military sniper, one of the most important factors is the rifling in the barrel to make sure the bullet is spinning correctly, and also the ammo itself. The ammo has to be the correct size, shape, & weight to have accuracy at different distances. A paintball has a liquid inside it, so by spinning it you don't get the same effect. Actually, if you have any sort of dimple or if the paintball is not completely round then spinning the paintball can cause unwanted hooks. The armson barrels have been tested to see if the rifling helps and even though I love those barrels, they were shown to be no better than other high-end barrels which did not have rifling. The ammo and the barrel are two of the most key elements in making a gun accurate. Both a good closed bolt and a good open bolt marker can apply a constant pressure source on the paintball which is what matters. There are some advantages and disadvantages to both but they really don't affect accuracy. I think we need to start with innovating the paint and barrel first if we are going to try to improve accuracy.

As for you slarty, I guess you find some odd joy in challenging me and thank you for the "nazi" comment. You are very mature. And you are not an admin so don't command people people as to what to do in a forum you have no control over. If I want to criticize someone because their post is so full of slang/ebonics that I cannot read it, then I will. My problem with the misspellings are that he put it in the forum which is labeled "Named after the IBM super computer, Deep Blue is headed by Tom Kaye, president of AGD. This forum is open to the public, but only high end technical subjects are allowed. If your posts don't cut the mustard they will be moved." My problem was that he posted in a technical forum and it was in very bad english/slang. On top of that, I honestly still don't know if I understand what he is actually trying to say. If he did some research I'm sure he would get his answers as there have been a lot of tests done on this subject. I apologize if I upset or offended anyone but I edited my other post out so no one else will see it and think I'm harassing you Johnson.

[Spencer]

Yes switching a cocker to open bolt is easy but it takes time your best bet would be to take any open bolt marker that has a pull pin pull it and slide the bolt forward the gun will still shoot and you just hold the bolt forward thats closed bolt want it open pop the pin right back in.

[ProX9]

If I were to do this, the reason I wouldnt want to switch the gun from open to closed so I could use the same gun is because thats not an actual representation for that bolt type, I dont want to say that an open bolt autococker doesnt shoot as far or the same because that has no real bearing in reality, and I know the test isnt perfect reality but I think that comparing actual open vs closed (viking vs excal) would give it more reality.

[Scott Hudnall]

sooooo many variables. open-vs-closed bolt accuracy.

shape of the paintballs.....weight of the paintballs.....variables......ballistic coefficient.....etc etc etc.

Interesting topic, but so so so old.....might be time to give it a rest.

[J_Hoyt]

Hypothesis: If the laws of physics are true, then there will be no effect on the trajectory, or drop of the paintballs.

Not sure if anyone's mentioned this yet but that's a pretty unscientific hypothesis.

[thefool]

Is an exirement such as this really needed? honestly, both open and closed bolt use a bolt and thereby impact the ball with comparable velocities and deform it in much the same way. they both have a flow through bolt, a spring/ pnumatic ram with similar force. Honestly most of what differs in the internals of the guns is sequence.

The only real possible differance in accuracy and the like is that in open bolt the ball is deformed when propeled by the air and in closed bolt the ball is more of a ball because it has had time to spring back.

[ProX9]

Not sure if anyone's mentioned this yet but that's a pretty unscientific hypothesis.

how so?

[Asian_Sensation]

Sorry, I wasn't trying to make someone end the thread or stop talking. Johnson88, I apologize on the grammer thing but I had to read it a few times just to try to understand what they were saying, and I got somewhat annoyed. I will handle that differently in the future. There is just already a lot of research out there about this. Plain and simply when it comes to being a real-life military sniper, one of the most important factors is the rifling in the barrel to make sure the bullet is spinning correctly, and also the ammo itself. The ammo has to be the correct size, shape, & weight to have accuracy at different distances. A paintball has a liquid inside it, so by spinning it you don't get the same effect. Actually, if you have any sort of dimple or if the paintball is not completely round then spinning the paintball can cause unwanted hooks. The armson barrels have been tested to see if the rifling helps and even though I love those barrels, they were shown to be no better than other high-end barrels which did not have rifling. The ammo and the barrel are two of the most key elements in making a gun accurate. Both a good closed bolt and a good open bolt marker can apply a constant pressure source on the paintball which is what matters. There are some advantages and disadvantages to both but they really don't affect accuracy. I think we need to start with innovating the paint and barrel first if we are going to try to improve accuracy.

As for you slarty, I guess you find some odd joy in challenging me and thank you for the "nazi" comment. You are very mature. And you are not an admin so don't command people people as to what to do in a forum you have no control over. If I want to criticize someone because their post is so full of slang/ebonics that I cannot read it, then I will. My problem with the misspellings are that he put it in the forum which is labeled "Named after the IBM super computer, Deep Blue is headed by Tom Kaye, president of AGD. This forum is open to the public, but only high end technical subjects are allowed. If your posts don't cut the mustard they will be moved." My problem was that he posted in a technical forum and it was in very bad english/slang. On top of that, I honestly still don't know if I understand what he is actually trying to say. If he did some research I'm sure he would get his answers as there have been a lot of tests done on this subject. I apologize if I upset or offended anyone but I edited my other post out so no one else will see it and think I'm harassing you Johnson.

man sorry i just had to refresh this.... man this guy answered all the questions in the forum but nobody seemed to listen..... PLUS talk about shutting someone down! :hail: lol slarty dude...slarty can you say owned?!?!? lol o man this just puts a pretty grin on my face and makes me giggle. :dance: :cheers:

well on the topic of this thread.... read this dudes quote.... answers everything. :bounce:

[J_Hoyt]

how so?

If the laws of physics are true, then there will be no effect on the trajectory, or drop of the paintballs.

Because you aren't testing whether the laws of physics are true. For a scientist testing something so simple, it's kinda neccessary to assume that gravity still pulls down and pi is bigger than e. Your hypothesis states that you've already made every calculation possible and neccessary to determine what will happen to a paintball - an impossible feat. Truth is, you have NO idea what the effect should be, that's what you're testing.

If you DID find a difference between open and closed bolt, then your conclusion would have to state that "the laws of physics are not true" in order to agree with what you said in your hypothesis.

[ProX9]

Meh I think I said that more out of sarcasm because people think their guns have figured out how to defy the laws of physics. You're still right though.

[phyregod]

Forget all of that mumbo jumbo.. Forget theories and formulas and high speed cameras.

Get an autococker and an automag. Lock them in vises. Use one cocker barrel for both guns. A barrel that is One and the same. Fire 110 paintballs at a target out of the autococker at a rate of one or two per second. Measure the grouping of the paintballs, do not measure the worst 10 shots.
Repeat with the automag.

The measurement will tell all.