low pressure mag style

[SteelSoul]

I was reading on paintballmagazine.com and came across this about the Badger.
From looking at this looks like the answer to low pressure on a mag.
Tell me what yall think

http://www.paintmagazine.com/wpaint2/badger3.shtml

[SlartyBartFast]

From looking at this looks like the answer to low pressure on a mag.

But what's the question?

Wasn't the Badger just a Mag copy? The SMartMag/Smartbox/Magixbox/Blackbox mod was just hype and stupidity. Lower pressure and lower efficiency.

Why do you want lower pressure? The ball propulsion IS low pressure.

What you might want is better efficiency. How much air gets left in the tank when the marker stop shooting is irrelevant. It's the number of shots fired that's important.

[SteelSoul]

Just trying to get some input on what yall would think

I am just thinking but if you can lower the pressure of a mag enough then in the long run you can lower the pressure coming into the reg, Wouldnt that have something to do with shot efficiency?
I dont know that is why I am asking

[SlartyBartFast]

Lower input pressure means WORSE efficiency and a slower recharge.

[awilli234life]

ideas

ideas like this are the forerunners for better products in the future that make the world a better place for everyone to play in. who knows maby they have somthing where others have failed
Every mag owner on earth would love to have the most air efficent gun out there. Maby just maby rather than closing this out of everyones minds lets look at this as in HOW CAN WE INPROVE ON THIS AND DESIGHN THE BEST VALVE YET? Looking for takers
heres a good example could it be possible for us to drill a few holes in just the right places run a few micro hoses and create a faster lpr recharge? without deviateing from the original pattern verry much ?

[SlartyBartFast]

ideas like this are the forerunners for better products in the future that make the world a better place for everyone to play in. who knows maby they have somthing where others have failed

If it was something new, perhaps. But it has been tried and proved wrong a number of times.

[hitech]

What makes the 'mag valve(s) less efficient than they should be is that they continue to vent air from the dump chamber after the ball is gone from the barrel. Level 10 bolts use a higher pressure and therefore vent at higher pressure when the ball leaves the barrel. However, level 10 bolts reseal the dump chamber with a far amount of air (pressure) still left preserving it for use with the next shot.

Want to make the 'mag more efficient? Try a longer (length measured to the first step or porting) effective length barrel. This should allow more of the air to be used, thus allowing you to achieve a higher velocity with a lower pressure in the dump chamber.

Let me know if it worked, and where you found the barrel.

[awilli234life]

efficency

try a J&J 2 peice stainless back
if you need any info on them talk to josh at there main office in shreve ohio
i have never found a gun barrel that makes a longer shot -- this is open for debate i am willing to get a new barrel once it can prove me wrong --- josh knows the friction ratings from one end to the other -- he told me the friction rating was less than glass

[ScatterPlot]

I wonder if you could make the power piston like a spring with a plunger on the end? So when it's all gassed up and all, the spring is compressed, and the piston's normal length, then when it fires the piston extends a little and shuts off flow quicker.

[SlartyBartFast]

-- this is open for debate --

Not kidding.

ANY barrel that shoots a paintball at 300fps will perform identically to any other barrel that shoots a paintball at 300fps.

Once the ball leaves the muzzle, the laws of physics are universal and the random forces of vortex shedding take over. :)

Now, a two piece, big bore, short, or ported barrel might use more air to get the balls to 300fps compared to a matched bore, unported, 8-10" barrel and thus have inferior efficiency.

[hitech]

I wonder if you could make the power piston like a spring with a plunger on the end? So when it's all gassed up and all, the spring is compressed, and the piston's normal length, then when it fires the piston extends a little and shuts off flow quicker.

That is a VERY interesting idea. I wish someone had the resources to try it and see if it could be made to work.

[SlartyBartFast]

I wonder if you could make the power piston like a spring with a plunger on the end? So when it's all gassed up and all, the spring is compressed, and the piston's normal length, then when it fires the piston extends a little and shuts off flow quicker.

If there was a plunger on the end of the bolt piston that would seal off the dump chamber before the bolt travelled all the way forward. As the bolt completed its forward travel, the plunger rod would be stretched.

When the bolt returned, the plunger would return to its normal length.

Maybe something made of rubber or other seal material.

I'm having a hard time visualising if there wouldn't be problems, but it seems feasible.

Or, as another possibility how about a pressure limiting type valve at the base of the power tube that only opens when the dump chamber pressure is above a given set point?

But that would be pretty much the idea presented by Scatterplot I guess.

[Jakedubbleya]

What makes the 'mag valve(s) less efficient than they should be is that they continue to vent air from the dump chamber after the ball is gone from the barrel. Level 10 bolts use a higher pressure and therefore vent at higher pressure when the ball leaves the barrel. However, level 10 bolts reseal the dump chamber with a far amount of air (pressure) still left preserving it for use with the next shot.

Want to make the 'mag more efficient? Try a longer (length measured to the first step or porting) effective length barrel. This should allow more of the air to be used, thus allowing you to achieve a higher velocity with a lower pressure in the dump chamber.

Let me know if it worked, and where you found the barrel.

Anything past 8" actually wastes air, but 10" are more accurate than 8" because apparently the ball needs that extra 2 inches to finish stabilizing...
(in other words the ball needs 8" for velocity, and around another 1-2" for final stabilization.)

Buy a barrel with minimal porting(lapco,cp)-or as hitec puts it better efective length- and youll see a difference in efficiency.

[SlartyBartFast]

Okay, here's the idea fleshed out as per ScatterPlot's idea (or at least what Scatter's description put in my head).

Place an open-ended cylinder in the center back of the dumpchamber. The back of the cylinder against the back wall of the dump chamber is vented to atmosphere.

In this cylinder you place a spring.

Then, a piston with two heads. One head is the size of the cylinder and equipped with an O-ring to seal against the cylinder wall. The other is larger than the power tube base opening and equiped with a face seal.

When the power tube is re-installed, the piston will seal the power tube base.

As the dump chamber is pressurised, the pressure will push back against the piston base and spring opening the power tube base.

When the marker is fired, the power tube will seal when the pressure in the dumpchamber equalises with the spring pressure on the piston.

The pressure at which the piston opens and closes the power tube opeing could be adjusted with shims at the base of the cylinder.

Now, if you REALLY wanted complex (but maybe not), you could perhaps use a pressure flow circuit breaker.

[SlartyBartFast]

because apparently the ball needs that extra 2 inches to finish stabilizing...

Well, without tests to back your claims I'd contest your afirmations.

But, I also have to add: A paintball is NEVER stable.