New Ideas Wanted

[awilli234life]

ok just to start the thread what would it take to create a gun that cronos the ball as it leaves the gun? could it be possible to use a ace eye to do this if modifyed correctly? or would another infared eye be needed on the tip of the barell ?

ok...... so this thread i wanted to start for \\product development// for all paintball to make the sport better for all p.s this isn't limited just to paintball guns what about pads gloves helmets what could be done to make things better and above all have fun....

[Pyroboy597]

I have thought about this for a long time.. to somehow encorperate a chrono into the board on the gun, and then have a special "angel air" type of device that can automatically control the airflow to adjust to the desired velocity. The internals from one of those handheld chrono's could be used and lined up underneath the barrel, in a millef compartment in the body. Say you wanted 285fps and you shoot 297fps, it would recognize that and self-tune itself back down to 285.

I knew i wasnt the only one thinkin about this :P

[Pacifist_Farmer]

While your at it throw a pressure transducer in the valve so that the gun can correlate between the pressure in the valve and the velocity of the ball, the correct equation could handle that, but I think the transducer is a more fool proof way.

building an on the fly adjustable reg might be a little more diffucult, perhaps a pneumatically adjustable orifice

[Pyroboy597]

While your at it throw a pressure transducer in the valve so that the gun can correlate between the pressure in the valve and the velocity of the ball, the correct equation could handle that, but I think the transducer is a more fool proof way.

building an on the fly adjustable reg might be a little more diffucult, perhaps a pneumatically adjustable orifice

non fancy language please? lol

[Head knight of Ni]

It would have to be on the barrel. There are too many variables to accurately gauge the velocity.

[ScatterPlot]

Put 2 "break beam" style IR transmitters/receivers on the barrel a very precise amount apart, then use the length and time between triggers to determine velocity.

[Maggot6]

They have already done that, to some plastic like gun...I will try and find it...

[Head knight of Ni]

Put 2 "break beam" style IR transmitters/receivers on the barrel a very precise amount apart, then use the length and time between triggers to determine velocity.

That would nasty up a barrel. You need a power source so a battery or cords are comprimises. A battery to power the eyes for any good amount of time would cause their size to become unwanted. Cords are just not a good idea. So you would need a wireless link to the recieving chip and batteries. Add to that that the system might fail during a barrel plant. You'll have to wait for technology to catch up.

[ScatterPlot]

That would nasty up a barrel. You need a power source so a battery or cords are comprimises. A battery to power the eyes for any good amount of time would cause their size to become unwanted. Cords are just not a good idea. So you would need a wireless link to the recieving chip and batteries. Add to that that the system might fail during a barrel plant. You'll have to wait for technology to catch up.

It would almost have to be a new barrel and everything. Route the wires (they don't have to be big, you could probly use magnet wire) along a teeny little groove in the side of the barrel. Put however many contact rings you could want along the sides of the barrel next to the threads, then have spring loaded clips touch them that are placed somewhere in the body. As with normal eyes, modification would be necessary, but very little. All you would need would be a real tiny chip to count timer pulses and then a driver to output it to an LED 7-seg display, wouldn't even need one of those if it was only going to a reg.




EDIT- You could also rig up some fiber optic cables in a similar fashion.

[Slimm Jimm]

why couldn't you have a second set of eyes in the body that start a timer when a ball passes in front of them and stops it after the ball has passed? I realize that wouldn't be as precise as two seperate sensors a wider distance apart would be, but since most balls are approximatly the same size, it could time how long it takes the ball to pass that point.

It would introduce the idea and then it could be refined upon.

Also, just out of curiosity, is a balls speed before leaving the barrel significantly different after it leaves the barrel?

[papatango72]

The future.....

The idea has been toyed with over and over by myself and the local airtechs for about two years now, here's what we've dealt with and some of the related issues.

Objective:

To develop a self regulating paintball marker that compensates velocity autonomously.

Methods:

1) Using Photo-Eyes and Time-Distance algorythms to adjust regulator pressure.

2) Using Laser rangefinders to ensure ball-at-target speed does not exceed 280fps

3) Using Radarchron-style feedback device to control final air output via digitally proportional electronic reg(angel-air, neotech etc.)



A. The photo-eye platform already exists, as a chronometer; it was produced up until a while ago with mixed results. Besides being difficult to clean, if a ball did break within the device, you would lose the ability to shoot, as a necessary shut-off would have to be in place to act as a "safety", should the unit fail to regulate ball speed.

Basic cost per initial unit would run around $700 usd retail, based on a production run of 1000 units. This would include all related air systems and eye based chrono.

B. The "Rangefinder" idea is simple. Get a high precision "leica" laser rangefinder and combine it with a digital reg. When you squeeze the trigger, the laser tells the reg what pressure to shoot at for maximum efficiency & safety.
eg. if the target is 10 feet away, drop pressure so that balls hit at 175 fps; if target is 200 feet away, increase pressure so ball hits target at 200 fps- this would mean a launch velocity of over 400 fps.... but still safe, because by the time the ball hits the target, it will have slowed to tolerable levels.
This fails, however, because if you were to lead a distant, moving target at 400 fps, then crossed paths with a target that was 40 feet away, you could land rounds on that poor soul at over 350fps, and that's not cool.
We're still working on this for military applications, and we've got the patents pending, so if you'd like more info I'll send you a non-disclosure form and you can see the gorey details for yourself.
This system is very cost prohibitive as well, since the basic system starts in around $1200, and adds considerable bulk to the marker. It would also slow the markers feed rate doen, as the air would have to be bled-off, should close range shots dictate a lower pressure.

C. The Radarchron seems to fit the bill well; accurate, tested, mass produced. Unfortunately, it only regulates "THE NEXT SHOT". The first shot would have to be fired in a safe direction, like towards the backwall of a chrono station. So it's kind of an unnecessary requirement.

In contradiction to the whole idea of a self regulating marker, we attempted to make the most consistent one instead. Using a well tuned Tippmann, an "A5" with some internals work, chrono'd between 277& 279 for 2500 shots, in a test done last September at Flagraiders Paintball in Toronto.
Dye Throttle air tank, CP reg, Evil and Marble paints were mixed as a batch, AA two piece barrel.
Varrying rates of fire from 1 bps to 13,( the limit of the Tippmann E-grip) were used.

-On a side note, consistency made for incredible accuracy, something I cannot stress enough when tuning your marker.-


I applaud all efforts for the self regulating paintball marker, but you'll still have to put them to the chrono, just to make sure it's working properly.


Good luck, hope this was helpfull.

PT

[nicad]

The technology is owned and protected by SP, and they attempted to implement it into the Nerve (thus the name). They never could get it to work reliably or effectively, so it was dropped and the Never came out anyhow. :)

[Lurker27]

no point in doing it for consistency, since you're still metering an uncertain amount of air from the regulator. Looks good...not even ON paper, because you've figured this out by the time you write something down.

[Riddler236]

PVI incorporated a barrel-mounted chronograph and LCD screen in the Cyber9000 they designed in 1996 after SP stole the Shocker from them. A few prototypes are floating around out there, but the marker never made mass production.

[Dawg047]

I think that it would be cool if someone took a barrel and drilled holes on each side then mounted eyes at one end. They could then mill a groove all the way down the outside to the other end with another set of eyes. There would be a tiny chip and super small screen mounted on the outside. Then a larger sleeve could slip over the whole barrel with a hole big enough to just show the LCD screen. The chip would figure velocity through the time that the two sets of eyes are blocked by the paintball. Everything would be protected and "dive proof". Only thing is that the barrel could only be one piece with no porting. It would be cool because you could have an electronic marker, air system, hopper, and now barrel. It could all be tied in somehow to create the ultimate machine. MUHAHAHAH!. Just a thought.