How many times can an autococker cycle per second?

[Dubstar112]

How many times can an autococker cycle per second before the timing starts to get out of control?..lol

Is that speed reachable by A human finger? and what if you timed an autococker slightly off so at high rates of fire when the timing starts to go out it actually starts to go in 'time'?



I felt this was a deep blue subject.. however if you dont then ill delete it or what ever..

[Failure]

I read that the max rof of an autococker due to its mechanical nature is 13bps.

[liigod]

Autocockers are FAAAAAAAAAAST, the problem is the feeding. An autococker is friggen fast, faster than anyone will ever be able to pull the trigger, but over 13 the closed bolt style doesnt feed correctly its limit is about 13, with some TOTALLY tweaked things you can get 14. The less weight u have to move the faster it can open leaving it more time for feeding. Force feeding it a bit faster, but is hard on the balls. With a cocker they are a nice stable gun to shoot so they are easy to hit ball right after the last ball. So i say that you dont need over 13.

[BlackVCG]

Telefragged-

Where'd you get your data from? Do you have pressure vs. sps graphs showing that an autococker will cycle that fast without drop off? I want proof.

[Wat]

I would guess the max cycling speed (not worrying about shoot down) would be dependant on how fast you can cock.

If you could time how fast the back block goes back, then forward. Wonder if i can chrony a back block.

[AGD]

Deep Blue is not about guessing or stating what you heard somewhere else so it must be true. You have to back up your statements with good reasoning, facts or research.

So far I have not heard anything convincing that cockers can shoot 13bps. Cycle speed is different from shooting speed because the bolt has to be open long enough to drop a ball.

AGD

[Wat]

So minimum cycle time would equal

Time to drop sear/hammer to strike valve + Time to cock/open bolt + time for ball to drop in breach + time to close bolt.

We can calculate time for ball drop by how long it takes gravity to drop a ball 0.68" for verticle feed (or RH/LH if i bother to remember my trigonometry). I'm ignoring ball suckage since i still don't buy that it is an appreciable amount.

As for the other amounts, i have no idea as there are so many combinations of springs/LP rams/mini rams etc etc. Anyone with an eCocker know their delay and timing settings?

[Failure]

Well, I watched it on Pig TV in the 2001 NPPL Tourney Interview with Dave Zinkam of Protech paintball. Dave explains Protech's new electronic trigger conversion for the WGP Autococker and states that the autococker cannot do more than 13 balls per second due to the mechanical nature. No scientific explanations just your everyday meat and potato heresay.

Here is the link...episode 3

http://www.pigtv.net/01_summary/01_NPPLcup.shtml

[AGD]

Warpig Balistic Labs did a study of how fast various loaders could feed paint. They used a cocker mechanism to shuttle paint through the system. That would be a good place to start. You can calculate the bolt travel time by using 9 fps for a bolt speed as a start. That is fast but workable. Take it from there.

AGD

[squidboy69]

As well as the spring variables in an Autococker, don't forget that people shooting 'low pressure' cockers are effectively reducing thier SPS before shootdown. The RetroValve relies on the burst of full tank pressure through the on/off to recharge so quickly, most guys these days are only feeding there guns like 200-300psi, so that's a lot of vol to fill with so little pressue. hmmm low pressure makes for slow guns. Also the prevalance of dual regualting cockers slows them down too... better go rebuild mine

[Manuel_FZR]

hmmm, the racegun frame is the fastest frame for the cocker, as far as I know.

They write:

How fast can I shoot?
As fast as you can feed it. We are running between 10,5 and 13 bps without any clipping at all (no eye).Keep in mind that you need lightweight parts (bolt, rear block etc.) to go beyond 10-11 bps on a Cocker. Most Cockers work fine at 9,5-10 bps. At the World Cup we were demoing cycle rates up to 18.5 bps just to show off.

So they talk from cycle rates at the 18.5bps. Shooting speed would be up to 13bps. Most will shoot 9,5 to 10bps.

[MikeCouves]

Yeah I was going to post about the PigTV episode. The guy on that states that a stock 2001 cocker can cycle 10 BPS without shootdown, and a WGP STO can do 12 BPS without shootdown. After that it's start half cutting because you are taking another shot before the gun fully recocks and fills back up with air.

[nerobro]

Time for some testing........ *looks longingly at the AGD gun dyno* Hmm.. I wonder what it woudl cost to build a setup that would allow us to answer these questions......

*rummages through the parts bins and pulls out a PIC or two and some phototransistors* As our electrococker project continues... this is going to be something we will find out. I'll post to the thread again when I have defintie answers on how fast "my" cocker cycles. And how fast it'll feed paint.

[Rock Star]

well a Huge factor in how fast it can cycle would be what type of bolt sear etc. if the bolt were delrin it would increase the cycle speed. if the back block was lighter than that would also increase the speed. thoguh i dont own a cocker i think this would play a huge role in cycle speed.
-Jared

[nerobro]

REcriprocating weight does make a difference, but you can make even a SS bolt Extrordinarily light. and being a smoother surface, I'd bet you'd get less drag. Again, even inertia can be overcome with enough force. The sear has nohting to do with it ;-)