What was that you said?

[CoolHand]

The whole "America, love it or leave it" thing is crap. I love America, I wouldn't want to live anywhere else, but that also means I want what's best for our country, which is tricky because everyone has different beliefs and ideas for what is best for the nation. I love that where I live is relatively safe and that my life is very comfortable, but I refuse to compromise my freedom for comfort. It's not the governments job to tell me what to do. Last time I checked, the government works for me.

Where in my post did I suggest otherwise? I said if he didn't like it, he was free to leave, OR become part of the political process and change things from the inside for the better. It's his choice. Option A is easy, option B is not, but they are both equally viable solutions.

I agree wholeheartedly that I would not surrender freedom willingly in exchange for safety. Sometimes such is forced upon us, but that's another show.

What I find rather repugnant is the way that AirAssault has declared himself as owner of the moral high ground and knower of all the "real" facts regarding anything he cares to think about.

This sort of thinking is not unique to him though, it is the usual MO of purposefully "disaffected" youths (the so called "rebels without a cause"). They want something to be pissed about to differentiate themselves from their parents, who must be the root of all the world's ills, and they will lash out with any fringe argument they can latch onto to do so. It has happened for generations, and will continue to happen so long as their is relative peace and prosperity in this country.

The point of my last post was to indicate, that in reality, our leaders don't need to give a hoot what the rest of the world thinks of us, they just need to do what's best for this country (when speaking of foreign policy, which is what this thread is about). That's all I was saying. No grand, sweeping, "big brother knows best" crap, and you'll never hear me utter such either.

[AirAssault]

So, I take it that Iraq never did have WMD's and had never used them? Wow, that's a relief to know.

No he had them and used them. I'll give ya one guess, who gave them the materials to make them?

[CoolHand]

No he had them and used them. I'll give ya one guess, who gave them the materials to make them?

I'd say that some of it was ours, some of it was the Soviet's, and some of it they made themselves.

I find it rather odd that you assume that the Iraqi people are incapable of learning how to create high tech weapons. They had a nuclear program at one time, and I guarantee that they had a chemical weapons program as well (as you said, we know for a fact that they had chemical weapons). The Israelis put the kibosh on their nuclear aspirations, and they hid/sold/used the chemical weapons themselves.

Those people are not so stupid as to need someone to "give" such technology to them. Given enough time and money pretty much anyone can figure such things out, especially if incurring casualties doesn't hamper the process (IE you don't care if people die in the process).

The fact of the matter is that not every bad thing in the world is America's fault, nor is every bad thing engineered to happen for the benefit of large corporations. Corporations make money, it's what they do, and wars mean spending money. Of course they're going to be in on that, it'd be stupid not to be. There's money to be made there, if they don't do the work, someone else will.

The corporation doesn't start the war (or have it started for them), they simply capitalize on the situation when it arises. How do you think we won WWII? It wasn't with flags and pride, it was with manufacturing and blood, the same way we'd win the next war, and the one after that.

They destroy 100 tanks in a week, you build 300 a week, and you make them better every single week until they can't destroy them anymore. They sink three ships, you build twelve, bigger and faster than the last ones. There is a ton of money to be made building those machines, but profit is an ancillary concern in such a situation. It's not the driving force, it's simply a byproduct of the action.

[AirAssault]

So, I take it that Iraq never did have WMD's and had never used them? Wow, that's a relief to know.

No he had them and used them. I'll give ya one guess, who gave them the materials to make them?

Cool sorry bro but try hooked on phonics. Quote me where I said I didn't love my country. Please, because I can't seem to find it. Also show me where I said Iraq didn't EVER have WMD's, I'm having a hard time finding that too. How about where i said we live in an evil country? Just another little side note, I'm not a kid, I have served to defend these freedoms of which you speak, have you?

You're right, things are not black and white they are right and wrong. How about we ask the tens of thousands of dead Iraq's, dead because WE decided their leader (the one we gave money,weapons, and the ability to make those wmd's to)was not a good guy, if THEY are happy we invaded. Of course he was a good enough when he was fighting Iran, but that's a different discussion. How about the fact that attacking a country without cause IS against the Geneva convention. How about you talk to all the so called terrorist being held by us without charge for YEARS if they are happy that we invaded. Why don't you ask the people we shipped off to other countries to be tortured only to find out,oops sorry wrong guy, if they are happy we invaded. I have not declared my self anything, you did. This countpry is supposed to be the leader of the world, right now we are doing the exact thing we are supposed to be defending against. The fact that YOU are going about life like everything is great is the typical American way. If it doesn't affect you no big deal. Good for you, keep your head up your 4th point of contact it is working well for you. I on the other hand will continue to fight for YOU, and the other sheep like you. All is NOT well in America, if you're to blind or to apathetic to see it then you can't be helped and I feel sorry for you.

[Beemer]

If you cant post with out swearing, please dont post.

[kruger]

No he had them and used them. I'll give ya one guess, who gave them the materials to make them?

Cool sorry bro but try hooked on phonics. Quote me where I said I didn't love my country. Please, because I can't seem to find it. Also show me where I said Iraq didn't EVER have WMD's, I'm having a hard time finding that too. How about where i said we live in an evil country? Just another little side note, I'm not a kid, I have served to defend these freedoms of which you speak, have you?

You're right, things are not black and white they are right and wrong. How about we ask the tens of thousands of dead Iraq's, dead because WE decided their leader (the one we gave money,weapons, and the ability to make those wmd's to)was not a good guy, if THEY are happy we invaded. Of course he was a good enough when he was fighting Iran, but that's a different discussion. How about the fact that attacking a country without cause IS against the Geneva convention. How about you talk to all the so called terrorist being held by us without charge for YEARS if they are happy that we invaded. Why don't you ask the people we shipped off to other countries to be tortured only to find out,oops sorry wrong guy, if they are happy we invaded. I have not declared my self anything, you did. This countpry is supposed to be the leader of the world, right now we are doing the exact thing we are supposed to be defending against. The fact that YOU are going about life like everything is great is the typical American way. If it doesn't affect you no big deal. Good for you, keep your head up your 4th point of contact it is working well for you. I on the other hand will continue to fight for YOU, and the other sheep like you. All is NOT well in America, if you're to blind or to apathetic to see it then you can't be helped and I feel sorry for you.

And, if that last little diatribe was pointed at me, then you had best adjust your sights. But, to address some of the little things that you mentioned.....

Yes, I did serve this country, 12 years, as a matter of fact. Joined in '78. 6 years in the Army, combat arms, and 6 years in the Navy, Electronics tech. I guess that you could call me a Patriotic SOB, which is what I am. The only reason that I did not serve more was because it was interfering with my home life. Wife could not cope with the Military. So, I made a choice. But, had the circumstances been a little different, then I would still be in, if they would let me.

You try to point to things that you did not say, but were very implied by the way that you said them. You talk as if you have a direct line to the CIA, NSA, FBI, and any other number of alphabet agency in the government. You talk as if you believe you have the hard facts. Congrats on standing up to your belief's. I personally believe that you have the right to state your convictions. Its called the First Amendment. And, I will fight for your right to state your mind. But, that does not mean that I have to listen to you, or agree with you.

It is easy to sit here, today on this vastly important paintball forum, and armchair nit-pick decisions that were made in the past. Decisions that were made with the information that was on hand AT THE TIME. Do you actually think that if the Democrats could prove, or even had a slim chance of proving that Bush, or Powell deliberately lied, that the Impeachment would not already be something that is history now? They have been slobbering all over each other looking for anything to pin on Bush or his administration. There is one thing that I do like about Bush, and that is this: If he says he is going to do something, then he does it. Right or wrong, he tries his best to do what he says he will.

And, if I recall correctly, we did have a coalition of countries when we invaded Iraq. Just not the ones with something to loose if we did invade. And, also, there is the little matter of a UN resolution or two that Hussein was ignoring. Something about a Nuclear weapons program or some such useless fact as that. And, there actually were some mobile Chemical weapons trailers found. Where are the WMD's now? Take a backhoe and some men out to the desert, and you can hide anything that you want, it will never be found. Iraq is kinda big.

And, terrorist being held. What would you do with them? Give them the same rights as Americans? Hmmmm, that would be a problem. You see, they are not prisoners of war, that right is reserved for actual soldiers of actual countries. But, they were involved in some way with trying to kill you and your fellow soldiers. They are not American citizens, so they dont deserve the same rights as you and I do. They are religious zealots following people who have corrupted and poisoned their beliefs. Do you realize that there have been more people killed because of some religion or another than any other reason? There is nothing that even comes close. These people are just like you, they believe that they are "right"

We dont live in a Utopia, your right to free speech has been bought and paid for with blood. And it has to be protected with more blood, constantly. And there are many, many people out there that are mad as hell that you have the freedoms that you do, and they dont. Its called class envy, and the politicians play that card all the time.

You mentioned right and wrong. From who's point of view? America's? Hussein's? Syria? You will get different answers as to what is "right" and what is "wrong" from each of them. I personally pick from America's point of view. And, they have asked the people of Iraq if they are happy that Americans are fighting in their country. They said that they were. But, you really dont hear about that in the mainstream media, they only want to do stories that sell air time, or papers, or push their particlar point of view. Not un-bias reporting, if you ask me.

You need to take a good long look at what the world situation really is, and not just what the news services regurgitate and expect the masses to suck in as cold, hard facts. Dont be one of the sheep.

And, I am with Coolhand, I am tired of trying to please all the other countries in this world. I could care less what France or Germany or any of the other countries of the EU think about us.

[geekwarrior]

^amen

thanks for responding to him, i gave up on him along time ago.

[AirAssault]

[QUOTE=kruger]And, if that last little diatribe was pointed at me, then you had best adjust your sights. But, to address some of the little things that you mentioned.....
The first part was, as far as the 2nd part, the name Cool at the beginnin should of tipped ya off.

Yes, I did serve this country, 12 years, as a matter of fact. Joined in '78. 6 years in the Army, combat arms, and 6 years in the Navy, Electronics tech. I guess that you could call me a Patriotic SOB, which is what I am. The only reason that I did not serve more was because it was interfering with my home life. Wife could not cope with the Military. So, I made a choice. But, had the circumstances been a little different, then I would still be in, if they would let me.
Thank you for your service.


You try to point to things that you did not say, but were very implied by the way that you said them. Because I disagree with the way the current administration is taking a dump on the constitution of the US and treating other nations in the world, these things are implied?

You talk as if you have a direct line to the CIA, NSA, FBI, and any other number of alphabet agency in the government. You talk as if you believe you have the hard facts. It has already been documented by people much smarter than I that bush and the admin knew the yellow cake statement was BS that is why the original state of the union was changed to say GB has proof. Powell has even come out and said so about the mobile labs and I think he should know.

Congrats on standing up to your belief's. I personally believe that you have the right to state your convictions. Its called the First Amendment. And, I will fight for your right to state your mind. Thanks and I for yours

But, that does not mean that I have to listen to you, or agree with you. Absoluetly not, pleade do the research on your own, dont rely on what I say.

It is easy to sit here, today on this vastly important paintball forum, and armchair nit-pick decisions that were made in the past. Decisions that were made with the information that was on hand AT THE TIME. Sorry there is to much evidence showing the bush admin was picking and choosing WHAT they told the congress and the American people, that argument just doesn't hold water anymore.
Do you actually think that if the Democrats could prove, or even had a slim chance of proving that Bush, or Powell deliberately lied, that the Impeachment would not already be something that is history now? They already have proven he lied, Powell was on national tv saying what he told the UN was false, how much more proof do you need? The dems don't have enough votes, simple fact of life. Don't worry you will see some day, and I will point you to this thread.
They have been slobbering all over each other looking for anything to pin on Bush or his administration. There is one thing that I do like about Bush, and that is this: If he says he is going to do something, then he does it. Right or wrong, he tries his best to do what he says he will. LoL, really, I remember him saying he would use war as a last result. He was also saying that Iraq would not let inspectors on the ground. Funny how the lead inspector was in Iraq as bush was saying this. This from the inspectors own mouth, not mine.

And, if I recall correctly, we did have a coalition of countries when we invaded Iraq. Just not the ones with something to loose if we did invade. And, also, there is the little matter of a UN resolution or two that Hussein was ignoring. LoL, I love when people bring this one up. Israel is currently ignoring 66 UN resolutions, do we attack them next?
Something about a Nuclear weapons program or some such useless fact as that. And, there actually were some mobile Chemical weapons trailers found. LoL what news organization told you this? Fox? If any had actually been found, don't you think the bush admin would have billboards saying so? Where are the WMD's now? Take a backhoe and some men out to the desert, and you can hide anything that you want, it will never be found. Iraq is kinda big. Yeah, to bad the weapons inspectors ON THE GROUND refute that.

And, terrorist being held. What would you do with them? Do a little research by our own words the majority of people being held have no ties to terrorism.

Give them the same rights as americans? Hmmmm, that would be a problem. You see, they are not prisoners of war, that right is reserved for actual soldiers of actual countries. But, they were involved in some way with trying to kill you and your fellow soldiers. They are not american citizens, so they dont deserve the same rights as you and I do. They are religous zelots following people who have corrupted and poisoned their beleifs. Do you realize that there have been more people killed because of some religion or another. There is nothing that even comes close. These people are just like you, they believe that they are "right" By writing this to me, don't you think YOU are right? The majority of the people being held, without charges, have not commited a crime. Oh yeah they did, they happened to be in Iraq when we invaded.

We dont live in a Utopia, your right to free speech has been bought and paid for with blood. And it has to be protcted with more blood, constantly. And there are many, many people out there that are mad as hell that you have the feedoms that you do, and they dont. Its called class envy, and the policticans play that card all the time. Another false hood given the American people by a moronic admin. 9/11 didn't happen because they hate our freedom, but way to tow the party line. They attacked us because we had bases on "holy" land. OBL has said this multiple times about America.

You mentioned right and wrong. From who's point of view? America's? Hussein's? Syria? You will get different answers as to what is "right" and what is "wrong" from each of them. No from a person that lives in this tiny ball called earth.
I personally pick from America's point of view. And, they have asked the people of Iraq if they are happy that Americans are fighting in their country. They said that they were. Sure some of them are happy, but the majority, per votes taken in Iraq, don't want us there anymore. I remember bush saying when they don't want us there we will leave, hmmm another lie. You dont hear about that in the mainstream media, they only want to do stories that sell air time, or papers, or push their particlar point of view. Not un-bias reporting, if you ask me. I have 2 cousins and many friends there now, they pretty much say the people don't want them there, but what do they know.

You need to take a good long look at what the world situation really is, and not just what the news services regurgitate and expect the masses to suck in as cold, hard facts. Oh I do see what the world situations really is. It is America telling the rest of the world IT will do WHAT IT WANTS NO MATTER WHAT. It is the US invading countries because it wants to. The day will come when we are invaded by those that dont like the way WE live, you better not say a word because you sat back and watched us do it. Dont be one of the sheep. LoL, according to you and some on this forum Im not a sheep, Im a crazy left wing nut.

And, I am with Coolhand, I am tired of trying to please all the other countries in this world. I could care less what France or Germany or any of the other countries of the EU think about us. Well that's all fine and dandy, however, one countries actions have affect on others, the US needs to learn how to play nice with others.[/QUOTE]

[Target Practice]

In tonight's news, AirAssault takes a massive dump all over the US and it's policies. Story at 11.

[bornl33t]

^amen

thanks for responding to him, i gave up on him along time ago.

he's been on my ever growing ignor list for a while. I'm dubbing it "Cryers list"

[AirAssault]

he's been on my ever growing ignor list for a while. I'm dubbing it "Cryers list"

LoL fine by me. If you can't have a grown up conversation by all means ignore me. I don't have a problem with any one that has posted or may post. We feel differently about a subject, and can debate the different view points in a grown up way. Sorry you can't. Ill have a beer with any of ya any day, born Ill save ya some of the milk I give my kids.

In tonight's news, AirAssault takes a massive dump all over the US and it's policies. Story at 11.

Wow that's all you can come up with?

We used to stand for something in America. When any of our soldiers/civilians are taken by another army/country the first thing we say is treat them humanely and by the rules set forth by The Geneva Convention. We however disregard them completely. Render people to countries to be tortured, even though our own experts say info obtained under torture is not reliable.

We condemn Iraq and Sadam for invading Kuwait, then invade Iraq.

The bush admin is involved in wire tapping Americans, something the courts have said was illegal, yet he kept doing it. You remember when he said, http://youtube.com/watch?v=UfbRcedmqvY HE LIED!! He was not getting court orders to do this.

They let the world know the name of a CIA covert operative, that put in geopardy EVERY person she ever worked with and you poeple are ok with that?

They don't plan on staying in Iraq yet are building a complex bigger than the Vatican?

They are pushing for production sharing agreements for oil in Iraq. Yeah google that and tell me this isn't about money.

[Glickman]

[going_home]

Aaron Russo

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656880303867390173

Bout two hours long but pretty shocking and worth the time to watch it.
The problem is both parties are so corrupt, neither care the least about the American people.
They care only to hold power and be re-elected.

But I do find it the norm that those that hate America also hate Israel .

[AirAssault]

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...80303867390173

Bout two hours long but pretty shocking and worth the time to watch it.
The problem is both parties are so corrupt, neither care the least about the American people.
They care only to hold power and be re-elected.

But I do find it the norm that those that hate America also hate Israel .

Very true.