New Patriots Logo

[Lohman446]

Mike Goelich (sp) sums up the NFL pretty well from time to time

"If you ain't cheating, you ain't trying"

[rkjunior303]

[Will Wood]

Nice.

[Altimas]

[93civiccpe]

WHAT?

You don't make any sense.

He doesn't take a hit because the Patriot's offensive line is just THAT good. And him being arrogant? Have you actually heard him speak? He's just out there having fun. GTFOOMT!

I'm sure him knowing exactly where the blitz is coming from and which receiver having one on one coverage due to that blitz didn't help him at all. Even the best offensive line gets beat from time to time because there are just too many good defensive ends / linebackers to stop them EVERY time. I understand die-hard fans, as I'm a niners fan for life, whether good or bad, but if my team did this, I'd be ashamed to wear their jersey/hat/etc. for a long while. Maybe it is just the way I was brought up, but I believe your integrity on the field reflects your integrity in life. In all my experience with sports this has been very true. I knew wrestlers growing up who did steroids / HGH and profitted for a little at the high school level, but that same sort of cheating in life has caught up with them.

Trying to stay back on topic, but how can you not understand what I was writing?? If you know the hand signals and audibles as a quarterback, you know where the rush is coming and always are a step ahead. A lot of defenses who have played them have said the same thing.. it just seemed like they knew our calls before the play. By the way, yes I have heard that pretty-boy Brady speak on plenty of occasions. I remember one of his first interviews where he said he thought he deserved to be in the same company as Johnny Unitas, Joe Montana, and a few other of the greats. That was after his first Super Bowl win.. he already had that big of a head. He's an arrogant jerk in my opinion, and I have a friend who grew up with him and says the same thing.

It's a sad thing for that whole organization that this has happened. I question all of their Super Bowl wins now and will never give them credit for it. I will never consider them a great team UNTIL they fire Billicheck and then go back to the top. That rebound would be impressive in my opinion. All their wins up to now that they've had with Billicheck I credit to cheating, and if you look at the many polls online, it seems like the majority of NFL fans agree with this and want to see him fired.

Yes, I am also a Nascar fan and know the saying well.. "If you aren't cheating, you aren't trying, and if you get caught cheating, you aren't trying hard enough". The funny thing is that they had Jeff Gordon on one of the espn morning shows and he summed it up very clear. If there was a gray area in the rulebook, and they were working in that area, that's where you get away with it until the organization makes a new rule. If it is clearly a rule against it, you are cheating. In this case, the rule is black and white and they got caught cheating. I hope that the rest of the team shows integrity and doesn't make excuses but gets out there and tries to make this right. You know the whole team had to know about this, but that doesn't surprise me. At the last olympics they took an anonymous poll with the athletes that if a new drug was discovered, that could never be detected, and that would guarantee you a gold medal, but the side affect would be 10 years off of your life, would you take it. Over 90% of the athletes said yes. How sad competitive sports have become...

[rkjunior303]

Fact of the matter is, they confiscated the camera during the first quarter. It didn't have any significant outcome to the game. Regardless, why do you think the coaches cover their mouths? Why do you see teams picking up a cut player if they're playing that players previous team that upcoming week? All for the same reasons - to gain whatever competitive edge you can..

Everyone's doing it, the Pats were just the only ones to get caught.

[Lohman446]

So... in a short amount of time they record, decipher, and have Brady memorize the signals? Other teams only have one set of signals? I recall a MI, MI State game where one of the two teams used two decoy play callers and one real because they thought the opponents might be trying to steal signals.

Just don't buy that you can gain intricate knowledge of the others calls and system that quickly. That being said - if you can make the other team think you might, or force them to know extra codes, you might force an "oops". I think it was psychologically far more effective (teams have known about it if you listen), than actually effective.

[93civiccpe]

Brady doesn't have to deciper anything... if you know the codes, and you are the head coach, and you see they are calling for a blitz on the left side, you tell brady over the headset that a blitz is coming from the left and what play to call. Billicheck is a very smart coach, who used the information for his advantage. I would agree that this is a big issue and NO, I don't think that the Patriots are the only team doing it.. why else would offensive coaches cover their mouths. But defensive coaches have to yell the plays out because the ability to use a headset for defensive players has been denied the last few times they tried bringing that up in the league meetings. They have to resort on hand signals and verbal cues. If you learn the hand signal for blitz right or blitz left etc, that alone can give you an advantage because every time you blitz you leave single coverage on someone or give an easy screen setup. That's why I said I feel sorry for the Patriots as they were the ones who were caught, because they probably aren't the only ones doing it, but they are the ones being looked down upon for being caught. There were several good conversations about ALL of the above on ESPN last night and this morning.

Quick responses:

rkjunior - Yes, it was confiscated in the first quarter, against a team so bad they shouldn't have had to cheat against. But the fact that thiis complaint has been made by at least 2 other teams over the past 2 years tells you that they've been doing this for a while. Not to mention the ex-assistant coach is the one who ratted them out and said Billicheck has been doing this since he was at Cleveland if I read that part correctly. No, it probably didn't help last game, but all these years.. maybe.

Lohmann - I hope I answered you statement with the above, but short and sweet: If it wasn't something they got a competitive advantage from, why would they be filming the signals all these years?? Why take the risk if you couldn't use it to your advantage?? Every NFL player I've heard comment on this has agreed it would be a big competitive advantage and it is cheating.

[Lohman446]

Its legal to try to visually steal signals, but not record them, as I understand it. As such I am sure every team has more than 1 signal for blitz left and mutliple false signals (personally I think half the fun of baseball is the ridiculous signal sending).

Yes, knowing what was coming would be an advantage (zero doubt)

But if your signalling is so simple it can be figured out easily, even with a recorder you need to get a better education.

I did not deny an advantage to makign the other team think you knew things you did not though. Of course there is some advantage to doing it, otherwise why do it?

PS: I hope this allows at least one defensive player to get a headset too - under similar rules to the QBs. Its sucks that offenses get that advantage.

[rkjunior303]

LOL it definitely didn't help him in Cleveland (or wherever he was before the Pats) so I doubt it made such a huge IN GAME difference. Maybe down the line when they played them again? Sure. Knowing the calls would give them an advantage but teams change those calls up SO much through the course of the year - a call in week 1 most definitely wouldn't be the same in say week 6.

[Lohman446]

LOL it definitely didn't help him in Cleveland (or wherever he was before the Pats) so I doubt it made such a huge IN GAME difference. Maybe down the line when they played them again? Sure. Knowing the calls would give them an advantage but teams change those calls up SO much through the course of the year - a call in week 1 most definitely wouldn't be the same in say week 6.

Maybe thats why some teams really suck? Those naive to think that everyone else plays by the rules? IE: The lions dont suck, they're just honest?

[BigEvil]

Im a huge Jets fan, and even if the Pats DIDNT video tape the defensive coordinator they STILL would have gotten their butts handed to them. The Pats are that much more of a superior team. Plain and simple. Manginni new this stuff was going on, and was waiting to catch it. Probably goes on all the time.

[rkjunior303]

Im a huge Jets fan, and even if the Pats DIDNT video tape the defensive coordinator they STILL would have gotten their butts handed to them. The Pats are that much more of a superior team. Plain and simple. Manginni new this stuff was going on, and was waiting to catch it. Probably goes on all the time.

that's exactly what it is. manginni and belichek aren't the best of friends. i'm sure he couldn't wait to stick one to his old pal, bill. patriots are going to run away with the AFC and the super bowl, and now people are scared. i really hope someone knocks LT out sunday - i'll be there to watch, that's f'sure!

[93civiccpe]

Actually, I hope the offense of the Patriots fall apart now that they are under the magnifying glass.. that would be awesome. It would just stir up the pot even more. Plus, I hope pretty-boy Brady actually has to take a hit now that he won't know where it is coming from. Quite frankly, if you look at the few games where Brady has had to take a hit, his play goes to crap and they lose. Note to the Chargers: knock Brady down and he'll run home crying to mommy and it'll be an easy win.

[bentothejam1n]

Actually, I hope the offense of the Patriots fall apart now that they are under the magnifying glass.. that would be awesome. It would just stir up the pot even more. Plus, I hope pretty-boy Brady actually has to take a hit now that he won't know where it is coming from. Quite frankly, if you look at the few games where Brady has had to take a hit, his play goes to crap and they lose. Note to the Chargers: knock Brady down and he'll run home crying to mommy and it'll be an easy win.

you're a tool