godwin and the straw man

[drg]

The only conclusion I can come to is that he believes the ends justify the means? Hows that any different than the most horrific leaders known to man? For example, Hitler.

While the PBN thread was certainly interesting, this one failed early. Rogue, you sure found Godwin in a hurry ... lol

[RogueFactor]

While the PBN thread was certainly interesting, this one failed early. Rogue, you sure found Godwin in a hurry ... lol

Its not hard to bait you. I knew all I had to do was throw in a reference to logic, and there youd be.

Unfortunately, your use of Godwins law is a straw man. I could have picked any number of leaders from history. I chose to pick one of the most recent. Had nothing to do with Godwin, contrary to your fallacy. Or the Nazis. Only referenced as a leader without good values.

Dont take the bait so easily next time.

[drg]

Its not hard to bait you. I knew all I had to do was throw in a reference to logic, and there youd be.

Unfortunately, your use of Godwins law is a straw man. I could have picked any number of leaders from history. I chose to pick one of the most recent. Had nothing to do with Godwin, contrary to your fallacy. Or the Nazis. Only referenced as a leader without good values.

Dont take the bait so easily next time.

Well my post was only half-serious, but honestly, you do your own credibility damage by referencing Hitler in comparison to anyone except other world leaders of similar power. Comparisons of Bush to Hitler are valid, comparisons of a CEO in a small industry to Hitler, not so much. MAYBE the largest multinational corporations' CEOs ... MAYBE.

The whole point of Godwin's law is that Hitler and Nazism is such an emotional topic, it's very difficult to get a fairly considered perspective when using them in a comparison. That's why, as tradition, when you invoke Godwin, you lose the debate. But surely you know this if you know what Godwin's law is at all.

I would think the answer to your question is more than obvious. Gardner isn't resposnble for millions of deaths. Let's not be ridiculous about our little cottage industry, shall we?

And please, there's nothing straw man about my invoking Godwin. You compared Bill Gardner to Hitler. That's pretty much cut and dried Godwin. I defy you to show how I am misrepresenting your stance.

[RogueFactor]

Well my post was only half-serious, but honestly, you do your own credibility damage by referencing Hitler in comparison to anyone except other world leaders of similar power. Comparisons of Bush to Hitler are valid, comparisons of a CEO in a small industry to Hitler, not so much. MAYBE the largest multinational corporations' CEOs ... MAYBE.

The whole point of Godwin's law is that Hitler and Nazism is such an emotional topic, it's very difficult to get a fairly considered perspective when using them in a comparison. That's why, as tradition, when you invoke Godwin, you lose the debate. But surely you know this if you know what Godwin's law is at all.

I would think the answer to your question is more than obvious. Gardner isn't resposnble for millions of deaths. Let's not be ridiculous about our little cottage industry, shall we?

Comparing the values of the man have nothing to do with comparing their actions or affiliations Yet another logical fallacy.

Interesting that you continue to invoke Godwins Law, when it is you emploring it. Never were the actions or affiiliation mentioned, until now of course by you. Does this mean youve lost the debate?

Practice what you preach, brother. Continue on though, I enjoy it.

PS. Nice edit

[drg]

Comparing the values of the man have nothing to do with comparing their actions or affiliations Yet another logical fallacy.

Interesting that you continue to invoke Godwins Law, when it is you emploring it. Never were the actions or affiiliation mentioned, until now of course by you. Does this mean youve lost the debate?

Practice what you preach, brother. Continue on though, I enjoy it.

PS. Nice edit

You cannot hide behind the fact that you are speaking solely of "the ends justifies the means." You rhetorically ask how it is different? The answer is patently obvious. Hitler's means have been shown to include mass murder, gross human rights violations, racism and megalomania. Maybe one of those things applies to Gardner, but the others obviously do not. His ends were world domination. Conflating that with Gardner is hyperbolic at best, and intellectually sloppy in any case.

That you ignore the patent answer shows that you have deliberately used the Hitler analogy for emotional effect, the very act Godwin's law was meant to expose as ludicrous. You could have picked any number of CEOs or leaders that do not have as much emotional and historic baggage; heck George Bush would have been a safer pick. That you didn't is, as I said in my original post, purely Godwinian.

[RogueFactor]

You cannot hide behind the fact that you are speaking solely of "the ends justifies the means." You rhetorically ask how it is different? The answer is patently obvious. Hitler's means have been shown to include mass murder, gross human rights violations, racism and megalomania. Maybe one of those things applies to Gardner, but the others obviously do not. His ends were world domination. Conflating that with Gardner is hyperbolic at best, and intellectually sloppy in any case.

That you ignore the patent answer shows that you have deliberately used the Hitler analogy for emotional effect, the very act Godwin's law was meant to expose as ludicrous. You could have picked any number of CEOs or leaders that do not have as much emotional baggage. That you didn't is, as I said in my original post, purely Godwinian.

And please, there's nothing straw man about my invoking Godwin. You compared Bill Gardner to Hitler. That's pretty much cut and dried Godwin. I defy you to show how I am misrepresenting your stance.

Everything yovue done is straw man. Often the straw man is set up to deliberately overstate the opponent's position. Which is precisely what youve done.

Re-read my last post to you. My comparisons arent as you suggest. Youre overstatement of my position constitutes misrepresentation.

Youve been defied.

[drg]

Everything yovue done is straw man. Often the straw man is set up to deliberately overstate the opponent's position. Which is precisely what youve done.

Re-read my last post to you. My comparisons arent as you suggest. Youre overstatement of my position constitutes misrepresentation.

Say it enough times and it'll be true? Unfortunately you're being completely intellectually dishonest. Actually you're being outright dishonest.

The only conclusion I can come to is that he believes the ends justify the means? Hows that any different than the most horrific leaders known to man? For example, Hitler.

It can't be any clearer than that. You deliberately compared Gardner to Hitler for emotional effect. Classic Godwin's law. Classic.

You can claim that you did not compare Gardner to Hitler ... but you'd be rewriting history. You are just being intellectually sloppy and hyperbolic over something you're emotionally invested in. A normal human response.

[RogueFactor]

Say it enough times and it'll be true? Unfortunately you're being completely intellectually dishonest. Actually you're being outright dishonest.

Pot meet kettle. If anyone is being dishonest, its your fraudlent misrepresentation of my position.

It can't be any clearer than that. You deliberately compared Gardner to Hitler for emotional effect. Classic Godwin's law. Classic.

Now you are a mind-reader too. Your premise is based on a lack of evidence. You do not, and cannot know why I compared the 2. Or that it was done deliberately for the reasons you suggest. Your intentional need to mislead the reader with misrepresentations are also fallacies. So please spare me your nonsense. You can talk a big game though, I will give you that.

You can claim that you did not compare Gardner to Hitler ... but you'd be rewriting history. You are just being intellectually sloppy and hyperbolic over something you're emotionally invested in. A normal human response.

No, I cant do that. I did compare them, and have stated earlier how and why.

In psychology there is a term called projection. It's a defense mechanism youve been using.

[kosmo]

Stop clogging my internets, you butt spelunkers.

[SCpoloRicker]

You know who else talked about the Nazi's? Hitler.

/say what you want about National Socialism, Dude, but at least it's an ethos.

[beam]

What is this new devilry?

[drg]

Lol, no sense to this thread now. For anyone who cares, it was split off of Rogue's "Reality ..." thread in the Paintball talk forum and is a reference to Rogue's comparison of Bill Gardner to Hitler based on the former's business ethics, a classic example of Godwin's law in action.

[SCpoloRicker]

Approves.

/secondary Godwin laws apply to original reference, IMHO

[warpig13]

Lol, no sense to this thread now.

There never was.


You are just a whiner.

Rogue, no mental jousting. Leave the other kids alone and go do your paintball work.