For those of you that go to church, I have a question

[Caboose]

As far as churches go:
There are churches for everyone, and everyone wants something different. Some want the more traditional churches. I attended one (that doubled as my middle and high school) and I disliked it. The services were bland and boring. More sleeping was involved than actual learning. They didn't make it enjoyable. They didn't draw you in. Some are cool with that, it just wasn't my thing. I started going to a large (2,000+ people attending per service) that had a very contemporary worship service and a very intelligent preacher who had the incredible ability to teach something completely over our collective head, but draw us into it and make us understand it. I loved it. Some can't stand contemporary worship, but it draws me very close to God. It really gets me in a receptive state that prepares me for the sermon. I absolutely love it. Neither is "wrong" in its worship or preaching choices. They just appeal to different tastes. Apples to oranges, pumps to electros, etc.

And on the Jesus issue:
I believe that the only way to heaven is, indeed, through the sacrifice of Jesus. I don't know how anyone could take God the Father (The great I Am, Jehovah, Jah, whichever moniker you please) and the Holy Spirit (Ghost, either one) out of the equation.


And I know someone is going to come in and say something to the effect of:
"How can God be three separate deities but also the same?"
I chalk that up in the "Things man cannot ever hope to comprehend but is incredibly simple to God because God is... well, God" pile.
The same goes for Jesus being 100% man and 100% God.

[mobsterboy]

Yes but think of it like an Egg... And Egg is one thing but it is made up of three parts, the yolk, the egg white, and the shell.

but an egg has three separate distinct parts. The trinity are one and the same.

[mstrdbz]

And that seems to be the real problem. Dont agree with what the Priest says, go find another church. want a divorce, make a new church of your own. Have it your way, 'cause God aint the authority, you are...

Is it? Or is the problem that so many denominations get so bogged down in tradition that they forget where they came from? I've been in church almost all my life, and if their's any one thing that stuck out the most to me, it's this: The way we used to do it isn't getting done anymore. Most people (especially non-believers) are less interested in what God did 2,000 years ago and more interested in what He's doing now. Show them what He's done in your life, and then they will be receptive to what He did 2,000 years ago.

Caboose: Well said!

[acropilot19]

Is it? Or is the problem that so many denominations get so bogged down in tradition that they forget where they came from? I've been in church almost all my life, and if their's any one thing that stuck out the most to me, it's this: The way we used to do it isn't getting done anymore. Most people (especially non-believers) are less interested in what God did 2,000 years ago and more interested in what He's doing now. Show them what He's done in your life, and then they will be receptive to what He did 2,000 years ago.

Its the tradition that keeps it real. Theres a reason its been done the same way for 2000 years, because its the truth. Tradition does not survive for 2000 years unless there is something REAL going on.

The reality is, more & more people today want the dog & pony show. The want their cake & they wanna eat it to. They want God to come to them. "Show ME". "MAKE me believe".
Man, YOU gotta go out and FIND God. Life is about PASSION. The Church is there to guide you- Not serve God to you on a platter. It dont work that way!
-You find God (and passion) in the struggle to stay married.
-You find God (and passion) when you nurse a dying parent (or friend)in their last days.
-You find God (and passion) when you give your time and love to the old and sick.
-You find God (and passion) when you give all you have to raise a child....
People dont get the fact that they have to EARN it.

-There's a reason for everything the church espouses. You've gotta understand that in the 2000 years the church has been around (If you havent guessed, I'm Catholic) many, many very intelligent people have studied and researched and argued & faught over just how the Bible should be interpreted. That is why the Catholic church is what it is, and does what it does. Those "Rules" have stood the test of time.

Every other "church" thats come along since then was started by somebody that wanted it their own way, and/or thought they were smarter than all those that went before them.

Thats why you have guys living out in Utah with 20 wives. They wanted a harem, the church said "uh-uh", so they started their own religion. Thats why there's 20 billion different protestant churches, cause each pastor has his own idea of what the Bible "should" mean.
:rofl:
Its really kinda funny, actually.

[spwz99]

Thats why there's 20 billion different protestant churches, cause each pastor has his own idea of what the Bible "should" mean.

While I think this idea can be taken too far, I don't think that this is necessarily a bad thing.
I think one of the greatest things about Christianity is that you are free to have your own opinions (within reason of course) and still call yourself a Christian.

Now, I don't pretend to be so wise as to think that I know more about God and the Bible than the thousands of priests who came before me. That would be ridiculous.

I also don't believe, however, that they have it 100% right in the Catholic church.

On the other hand, I don't think that there is any church that has it 100% right because the church is made of imperfect people. I think every church has something different to offer, something that other denominations might have missed. And the sooner all Christian denominations can realize that, the sooner we can get closer to having Christianity as what God meant it to be.

[maxama10]

Its the tradition that keeps it real. Theres a reason its been done the same way for 2000 years, because its the truth. Tradition does not survive for 2000 years unless there is something REAL going on.

The reality is, more & more people today want the dog & pony show. The want their cake & they wanna eat it to. They want God to come to them. "Show ME". "MAKE me believe".
Man, YOU gotta go out and FIND God. Life is about PASSION. The Church is there to guide you- Not serve God to you on a platter. It dont work that way!
-You find God (and passion) in the struggle to stay married.
-You find God (and passion) when you nurse a dying parent (or friend)in their last days.
-You find God (and passion) when you give your time and love to the old and sick.
-You find God (and passion) when you give all you have to raise a child....
People dont get the fact that they have to EARN it.

-There's a reason for everything the church espouses. You've gotta understand that in the 2000 years the church has been around (If you havent guessed, I'm Catholic) many, many very intelligent people have studied and researched and argued & faught over just how the Bible should be interpreted. That is why the Catholic church is what it is, and does what it does. Those "Rules" have stood the test of time.

Every other "church" thats come along since then was started by somebody that wanted it their own way, and/or thought they were smarter than all those that went before them.

Thats why you have guys living out in Utah with 20 wives. They wanted a harem, the church said "uh-uh", so they started their own religion. Thats why there's 20 billion different protestant churches, cause each pastor has his own idea of what the Bible "should" mean.
:rofl:
Its really kinda funny, actually.

Meh, more or less.

[beam]

Every other "church" thats come along since then was started by somebody that wanted it their own way, and/or thought they were smarter than all those that went before them.

You know, I'm really glad Martin Luther had the nads to challenge the way the Roman Catholic church was operating.

And I'm not Lutheran. And I don't even agree with everything Martin Luther believed.

Here's the way these things need to be looked at. Jesus came to earth and brought a New Covenant for the people of earth and God. This means, that the old way of coming to God, via His nation of Israel, was no longer valid. The new covenant is that you can come to God via the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross. Jesus called this new covenant "New Wine" And he said you don't put new wine in an old wineskin...it will burst.

The things that churches do that aren't sacraments...like worship style, specific ministries, church decor, etc. is all wineskin. It needs to be updated and culturally relevant. The wine, that is the Gospel, never changes.

Some people won't step one foot into a traditional church with pews and steeples and stained glass windows. So, churches change those non essential things so that a person will come. Realize, the person isn't rejecting Christ, he/she is rejecting out-dated seating, irrelevant out-dated art, and irrelevant out-dated architecture. Those people who enter a modern contemporary church building and begin a relationship with Christ have just as real of a relationship with Him as someone who found it easy to go to an irrelevant/out-dated church and endure it.

[teufelhunden]

I also don't believe, however, that they have it 100% right in the Catholic church.

As a confirmed Roman Catholic, I can attest that they have it about 4% right. If that. On a good day.