Speeding ticket question

[Swampy]

Don't mean to start a fight but.....

Hmmmm...I'll take a stab at this...
Sounds like the officer had good PC (probable cause) for the stop. A vehicle code violation, even if its faulty equipment, allows me to stop you and "continue" my DUI investigation. Some officers sit on bars, but they must find a reason to stop you other than the fact that you are leaving a bar- this one did. I've gotten quite a few drunks from faulty license plate lights.

The bar has always been a rowdy type of bar, it stools aren't flying that night something is wrong. So I don't blame Police for sitting on the bar's property, because they are just going to be called anyways. But I do have a problem if when it comes to when a costumer is leaving showing no physical signs that he's messed up, i.e. dropping keys, stumbling, falling over, yelling at the top of their lungs. But their are bar patrons that don't go to bars to drink themselves silly or don't drink at all. And its not a violation of a code when in the law it does require them to work, it just says equipped.

2nd. FST's - That "crazy eye test" is actually THE most accurate & my favorite. Your stigmatism has absolutely no effect. We are looking at what is called Nystagmus- the natural bouncing of the eye as it tracks an object. Alcohol magnifies nystagmus and makes it much more noticeable. The more alcohol on board, the more your eyes bounce. There are certain medical issues that will invalidate this, but you dont have any of them, or you would know it already. The remainder of the FST's are simply tools for observing the affectation of your motor skills and your ability to function attempting multiple tasks- similar to the demands of operating a motor vehicle. A lawyer telling you these tests are designed to make you fail is a slimeball out for your money. These tests have been scientifically validated and are standardized for use nationwide. They have been attacked from every angle by many high priced lawyers, but remain in good standing with the courts- because they are extremely effective when given properly.

Even when your told to take off your glasses, I can not see more than a 6in away from my face without every thing getting blurry, let alone I know officers have pen lights but he used a regular black ink pen that was black in color which I couldn't see or focus on without glass at any level of soberity. I was reading up on the site that the proof that HGN works, and there are so many things that could go wrong DOT: http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/inju...us/hgntxt.html. It states in there in writing from the DOT "The test should be used in the context for which it was developed: as one of the three roadside tests that make up the standardized field sobriety test battery." Its one of three, not trying to say the officer has bad character, but how can you draw on a conclusion when only one of the three test where done. Its a loose arrest, and its sloppy. Even if it gets this far you should know better than all of us of how much the police officer comes under fire in the court system. I don't want to bring it that far but if I have to then I guess its going to happen. Not only that if the HGN is scientific than it must be performed exactly as under the same conditions it was in the lab/or whatever under the same conditions well it was 9* outside at the time and commonsense tell me that they didn't test under those temperature extremes. Everyone knows that when its that cold outside that the human body starts to shut down much like a person drunk would do.

Also the alphabet test and counting down tests have been proven scientifically proven to fail. When the officer tells you to say the alphabet from D to X and not to sing it. Well thats to hard for average people because first you learn the alphabet in Kidnegarden, and second you learn it by singing (at least I did), third if you stop to find your place in alphabet in your head it looks bad on you (so am I doing a roadside IQ test now). Think about it, talk to any 10 average white male, and he'll say he can say the alphabet, I can bet that at least half of them can say it flawlessly under those conditions. Its designed to Fail.

3rd. your BAC was .103. as tested a day or two later. Sounds like the typical lab testing cycle. Its on your lawyer to prove the lab messed up your sample. Good luck with that. Sounds to me like you had too much to drink.

There are tons of variables that are involved in blood work. A big one is that blood contains sugar, it will ferment. Now if the manufacture screwed up and didn't put enough of that fixer in the bottom of the vial. Or the vial could have been contaminated before it was used that could give you different results. Who knows there could have been a pissed off/careless employee at the plant they were manufactured at. What about the equipment? how is it calibrated? Does it detect other defects in the blood like insulin or other pathagens? Plus what happened to it in transport, it wasn't tested on site but shipped to Madison WI. Also being a holiday weekend, crime tech are people and people make mistakes, they would have been overloaded with blood samples and alot can go wrong when people are under a crunch.

4th. Pulled over at 1:05 & blood drawn at 2:20. Sounds like a normal time frame. I'm going on California law here but everything seems by the book and proper.

At my time of being pulled over and with the option of taking a breathilizer on site there was no ball park figure or physical proof (even form a police officers mouth its still hearsay) of how much I had to drink. I could have been under legal limit at the time he pulled me over, but over a hour later I was over.

I hook guys all the time that dont think they're drunk, and thats the problem. how does someone associate a number like .08 with the buzz they are currently feeling? Unfortunately its not an excuse. The reality is, motor-function and the abilty to multitask are impaired at .04% BAC. You were way past that. Glad you didnt hurt anybody while you were driving drunk, 'cause that woulda been a Felony and serious Jail time dude.

My Rule: if i touch Alcohol, I dont touch the wheel. Mostly I dont touch alcohol.

Trust me I learned a lesson, and its not one of those fun ones. Point is there's holes in their case. Like why wasn't a breathlizer given? Why do they use either or for determining BAC when two will give them harder evidence? Why isn't there alternate scientific proven test for field soberity tests? Also why doesn't the law calls a for properly lighted vehicle at state that a registration lamp be lit at night or in working order? The bad thing is that most of the rookies that come out of the academy make their first stop in their career at Pewaukee WI, stay for two years then leave, and show me a rookie cop that doesn't dream of bust/car chase, they are high strung. Hell last year I was walking back to my apartment a block away, I was bombed drunk, but wasn't making noise, wasn't passing out, stumbling yes. Well rookie cop pulls up behind me, I was technically drunk in public but the older cop told the rookie to let me go because the ticket would have just been thrown out (Hmmm have him stumble home or let him get behind the wheel). Rookies have always had a bad track record in the City of Pewaukee, but they do their jobs to the best of their ability and lately we've had a rash of armed robberies going on (I work at a liquor store as a third job, and the owner is a single female that feels unsafe closing alone and she still packs a .38 under the counter). But still I glad they stopped me cause who knows what was lying down that empty stretch of road other than more snow.

[acropilot19]

Hahahaahahahahahahahaaaahahhahaaha. Liar.

I meant as a person, not in the pocketbook.

[VTLO910]

Heres one for you. I got a DUI that I'm facing, first the cop was profiling the bar that I left. He pulled me over for having a registration light being out, not for swerving nor striking a object. The State of WI requires a car or truck operating in the hours of darkness that it have headlights, taillights, turn signals, and brake lights. I doesn't say anything about registration lights. But further down in a registration lights law states that if a car or truck is equiped with registration lights they must be ilumated with a white light or bulb. Nowhere in the law says that they are required to work.

Swampy, your missing something bud.

But further down in a registration lights law states that if a car or truck is equiped with registration lights they must be ilumated with a white light or bulb.

In your own typing...^ Illuminated indicates that it must be working! It indicates an operational status of the white light or bulb.

Sorry, but sometime laws are hard to understand.

[acropilot19]

Don't mean to start a fight but.....

I do have a problem if when it comes to when a costumer is leaving showing no physical signs that he's messed up... And its not a violation of a code when in the law it does require them to work, it just says equipped.

Even when your told to take off your glasses, I can not see more than a 6in away from my face without every thing getting blurry, let alone I know officers have pen lights but he used a regular black ink pen that was black in color which I couldn't see or focus on without glass at any level of soberity. I was reading up on the site that the proof that HGN works, and there are so many things that could go wrong It states in there in writing from the DOT "The test should be used in the context for which it was developed: as one of the three roadside tests that make up the standardized field sobriety test battery." Its one of three, not trying to say the officer has bad character, but how can you draw on a conclusion when only one of the three test where done. Its a loose arrest, and its sloppy.

Not only that if the HGN is scientific than it must be performed exactly as under the same conditions it was in the lab/or whatever under the same conditions well it was 9* outside at the time and commonsense tell me that they didn't test under those temperature extremes. Everyone knows that when its that cold outside that the human body starts to shut down much like a person drunk would do.

Also the alphabet test and counting down tests have been proven scientifically proven to fail. Think about it, talk to any 10 average white male, and he'll say he can say the alphabet, I can bet that at least half of them can say it flawlessly under those conditions. Its designed to Fail.



There are tons of variables that are involved in blood work. A big one is that blood contains sugar, it will ferment. Now if the manufacture screwed up and didn't put enough of that fixer in the bottom of the vial. Or the vial could have been contaminated before it was used that could give you different results. Who knows there could have been a pissed off/careless employee at the plant they were manufactured at. What about the equipment? how is it calibrated? Does it detect other defects in the blood like insulin or other pathagens? Plus what happened to it in transport, it wasn't tested on site but shipped to Madison WI. Also being a holiday weekend, crime tech are people and people make mistakes, they would have been overloaded with blood samples and alot can go wrong when people are under a crunch.

Start a fight? Nah, this is a forum for topics of interest to be discussed & debated. I come here for entertainment & to learn. Im gonna read up on that NTSA site.

Heres a response from a RoadDog as short & sweet as I can get it...

"customer leaving showing no signs of impairment..." Is amazing how many Falling Down Drunks i contact that tell me they're NOT drunk. Like I said previously, I hook a bunch of people who dont think they're drunk, but legally they are. We as officers are trained to look for signs that you are IMPAIRED (lets just get rid of the word 'Drunk'). Fumbling with the keys, missing the key lock once or twice, leaning on the car a little for balance, an uneven gait...I could go on FOREVER...

When you're impaired, you may not notice you're doing these things, but even a lay person can testify in court as to another's impairment based on their observations- because most people recognize the signs of impairment, having either been there themselves or seen it before. We as Officers see it MUCH more frequently, and can step right past the obvious signs to the more minute details that tell us not only "IF", but "How Much" you are impaired.

FST's have been Scientifically Validated precisely because the courts & the people DEMAND a system of determining impairment that can be implemented in the field under a wide range of conditions, and still be an accurate indicator. THESE TESTS ARE NOT PASS/FAIL. I administer the tests, and observe your performance, taking note of the environmental conditions, your physical abilities, and of the indicators of impairment you present me. I simply write down what i observe. Granted, these tests are not foolproof. But they are not meant to be- By no means. They are simply a standardized means of observing your motorfunctions and your ability to multitask.

Add to my observations the lab results, and now you have two independant entities that have been scientifically validated & court tested saying you are impaired.

It is your RIGHT as an American Citizen to have your day in court, I'm not trying to dissuade you. But I see SOOOOOO many lawyers that take cases like this simply to milk you dry. They will tell you whatever you want to hear, then take the case to court. Then begins the process of "Continuance", were the lawyer shows up on the schedualled day and asks for one for whatever reason- charging you by the hour for his time. Ive had DUI cases get continued 20-30 times, then they plead out. Result: Defendant pays a boatload in fees (Lawyer & Court)for a case that never was going to trial, the lawyer has milked you for new tires on his Corvette, and you still take the DUI.

Be careful- if the majority of lawyers you've contacted tell you your case is not worth taking to trial, thats golden advice.

Bottom Line: Dont ever do it again.

[93civiccpe]

I have to question some police officers with the testing though. Not saying that you are wrong and Swampy is right, but I've seen the other side of it.

I have a female friend who after a wedding we all hung out and then went to a bar & grill to eat & have some drinks. This female friend did not drink at the bar, and had one weak fruity drink at the wedding. Well, this is roughly 4 to 5 hours after the wedding. We are leaving the bar. There are obvious police waiting around in their cars, and we see them. This friend is in a new car that she had only owned for a couple weeks. Unfortunately, in this car the dash lights up whether the headlights are on or not, and there are no daytime running lights. She is a blonde, and forgot to turn her headlights on.. and this has happened a few times since such that I'm working on wiring up a beeper that beeps if it is dark and her lights aren't on. (stupid car design). Anyways, this hot-headed young officer pulls the vehicle over. (I'm in the back, I have a high tolerance for alcohol but don't drink much. I had one drink at the wedding, and then one drink with dinner, and I was 6 foot, roughly 230 pounds, and in shape. I'm not drunk in the least).

Anyways, the police officer takes her out of the vehicle, and gives her one sobriety test.. say the alphabet from one letter to another without singing. I think she was supposed to go to "T". Well she does it fine but goes "T, Uuu, oops, you said to go to T.. sorry". She was clear headed, but nervous, and caught herself. She knew she had gone one too far. The officer came to the car and started talking to me, and telling me she's failed 2 of his 3 tests, and if he gives her a third, and she fails it, then he's taking her away in handcuffs. Well, apparently the "first test" was her being a blonde and not turning on her headlights, because he only gave one test.. I watched him. (a little note to clear this up, her previous car had daytime running lights that automatically turned on the headlights to full when it got dark.. she got too used to not having to turn on the headlights because the car did it for her). He decides to be nice because we hear his radio go crazy and see about 8 troopers pass by with lights and sirens blazing due to a major incident happening across town. He asks if I've had anything to drink, and I'm completely honest with him because I am an honest guy.

He tells me he can't let me drive us home, and I ask him to give me the sobriety test. I volunteer to take all his tests and if I fail I would happily go to jail with him. Nope, instead he tells me I'm allowed to drive to a nearby parking lot, (about 2 blocks down), park the car, and wait for someone who has had nothing to drink in the last 12 hours come pick us up. Well, he tears off with his lights and siren on to go help out with the other incident, and I was dumb enough to actually drive to the parking lot and wait for some people to come get us. I figured maybe it was a setup and the police officer was going to circle around.

Don't get me wrong, I am glad that no one was taken away in handcuffs. I was going to suggest she take the 3rd test to prove him wrong, but she was already scared and shaking. She knew she wasn't drunk, or the LEAST bit impaired. She had a "blonde moment" at the wrong time and wrong place and almost had to go to jail and take a blood test to prove the officer was wrong. His test was so incredibly stupid, because it was clear she was not impaired. It put a bad taste in my mouth because I wanted him to give her a breathalizer test, but he said he didn't have one and it wasn't an option. That would have removed all doubt from the situation. I am figuring that when done right, the tests can be effective. I believe the officer realized from that test that she was not drunk, she had a clear record, and was not impaired, which is why he did not arrest her. I guess he was trying to teach a lesson.. which he did.. as she only drank on special occasions before and now she's stopped drinking in general.

[Lohman446]

I was drinking. I had a moving violation. I had a BAC above the legal limit.

Its not my fault.

[bentothejam1n]

I ran a stop sign.

$70 and 3 points.

suck it up, you knowingly did something against the law, just because someone else messed up after you messed up doesn't mean you should pay.


(edit)

also, don't complain the cop was being a dick, its his job to generate revenue.

meh he was a cool cop but he said i was going 55 in a 45 when i was really going 50. maybe my speedometer needs a calibration since its a 1993. I think they were just trying to meet the quotas because i saw three cars pulled over on my way back... I understand if you cant to the time dont do the crime, but i dont think they should fine students heavily like they do. I dont know maybe they should have an alternate way of paying such as volunteer work or something.

[bentothejam1n]

...and while I'm at it...

Since when did our courts become the forum for the search for the Almighty Loophole?!?

-Some people have Honor & Integrity, the rest I get to see again in court.


Dude, if you did it, stand up like a man and take it. Believe me, you'll be in the minority if you do, but you'll be the better for it.

im a 17 year old kid that doesnt have a lot of money...

[skife]

meh he was a cool cop but he said i was going 55 in a 45 when i was really going 50. maybe my speedometer needs a calibration since its a 1993. I think they were just trying to meet the quotas because i saw three cars pulled over on my way back...

maybe you should suck it up, you just admitted you we're speeding, most cops won't pull you over if your going 5 over the speed limit.


I ran a stop sign, i deliver pizza part time, thats my only source of income, i'm trying to save money to buy a different car. I took it like a man, i broke the law, i'll pay for it.


they don't have quotas :P

[Lohman446]

So students should get special treatment because they are students?

Sorry, if you are old enough / responsible enough to drive a car than you are old enough / responsible enough to pay the tickets. You want the rights, you take the responsibilities to, especially when that responsibility is for breaking the law.

Got pegged testing the rev limiter on the Camaro last year... no rev limitier, no speed limiter... I paid the ticket and was just happy it was written "nicely" by the officer.

[Madmarx]

See if you can meet with the prosecutor ahead of time and have it placed on file without a finding for 6 months or a year. If you don't get another ticket in that time they would drop it.

[bentothejam1n]

they don't have quotas :P

i asked the sro at my school...

So students should get special treatment because they are students?

Sorry, if you are old enough / responsible enough to drive a car than you are old enough / responsible enough to pay the tickets. You want the rights, you take the responsibilities to, especially when that responsibility is for breaking the law.

I think if someone is trying to balance school and work they should be cut a break. I'm trying to save up for college. its not like I'm looking for handouts. Community service would open up kids' eyes to the real world. I think it would actually benefit the community in the long run. What do you think is going to affect a teen more when he grows up: a forgettable slap on the wrist ticket or realizing that (for ex) homelessness is a real problem. i am more aware of Darfur or child protestation in southeastern asia than 99% of adults i've met. That stuff needs attention. I know it stretches the original point but i think it all relates back to community service. I think it would also improve todays youth in old peoples' eyes.
If we get the responsibility then we should be treated equally too. i have been pulled over multiple times at 1 am in the morning by a cop and treated like crap before i even say a word. All of those incidents have never resulted in a ticket. Just getting hassled disrespected. I've reported all of those officer's but i really dont think that will do anything.
/ramble

[stompdown]

HERE is the best way to get out of a ticket. It works (most of the time)

[Lohman446]

i asked the sro at my school...

I think if someone is trying to balance school and work they should be cut a break. I'm trying to save up for college. its not like I'm looking for handouts. Community service would open up kids' eyes to the real world. I think it would actually benefit the community in the long run. What do you think is going to affect a teen more when he grows up: a forgettable slap on the wrist ticket or realizing that (for ex) homelessness is a real problem. i am more aware of Darfur or child protestation in southeastern asia than 99% of adults i've met. That stuff needs attention. I know it stretches the original point but i think it all relates back to community service. I think it would also improve todays youth in old peoples' eyes.
If we get the responsibility then we should be treated equally too. i have been pulled over multiple times at 1 am in the morning by a cop and treated like crap before i even say a word. All of those incidents have never resulted in a ticket. Just getting hassled disrespected. I've reported all of those officer's but i really dont think that will do anything.
/ramble

A) We're not discussing sending someone to Dafur to do community service for speeding.

I balance running a business, taking care of my children, and a personal life. Surely I should be cut slack if I'm pulled over for speeding. The fact of the matter is people will always tell you how they have it worse than everyone else and the law should cut them some slack - it just does not work like that. Now, if the choice is for everyone to pay the ticket or do 30 hours of community service thats a different game, but you cannot single out students.

As to waiting hours to do the BAC blood test. Funny, in one of my classes dealing with concealed weapons the lawyer teaching the class specifically told us if there was any chance that it was in our best interest to ask for a blood test because it would take hours to get done and you would be LESS impaired than when originally tested. I don't think I would bring up the fact it had been hours.

What was done here was illegal. It put every person on the road at risk (no I don't buy the "I'm ok at levels others aren't" narcisistic nonsense either). Luckily nothing that will destroy your life and give you negative memories forever happened. You screwed up, you got caught... raise your head, admit it, pay the consequences, move on and be thankful you can.

Beleive it or not the police are probably not out to get you. They probably have been far more trained than you at spotting impairment. BTW, arguing you are not impaired when you failed the BAC test is idiotic at best. "Functionally drunk" is still legally impaired.

Now, had you simply failed a few FST, I might feel sorry for you. The fact is though the officer pulled you over for a reason. The officer administered FST for a reason. You failed them for a reason. You failed the BAC blood test too for a reason.

Time to quit looking for excuses, look in the mirror, and pay the consequences. And get a lawyer, maybe they will lighten those consequences for you.

That being said, don't get over the fact YOU screwed up, its not someones elses fault, its not someone else out to get you.

[bentothejam1n]

A) We're not discussing sending someone to Dafur to do community service for speeding.

well i forgot to mention that i get interested in DArfur through volunteering but i probably tried to stretch it too far