Speeding ticket question

[skife]

i asked the sro at my school...

I think if someone is trying to balance school and work they should be cut a break. I'm trying to save up for college. its not like I'm looking for handouts. Community service would open up kids' eyes to the real world. I think it would actually benefit the community in the long run. What do you think is going to affect a teen more when he grows up: a forgettable slap on the wrist ticket or realizing that (for ex) homelessness is a real problem. i am more aware of Darfur or child protestation in southeastern asia than 99% of adults i've met. That stuff needs attention. I know it stretches the original point but i think it all relates back to community service. I think it would also improve todays youth in old peoples' eyes.
If we get the responsibility then we should be treated equally too. i have been pulled over multiple times at 1 am in the morning by a cop and treated like crap before i even say a word. All of those incidents have never resulted in a ticket. Just getting hassled disrespected. I've reported all of those officer's but i really dont think that will do anything.
/ramble

i think you should just step up and admit you we're wrong instead of making excuses about how you think you should be cut a break.

suck it up kid, if you couldn't afford the ticket, you shouldn't have been breaking the law.

[kosmo]

Dont listen to them Ben. Fight the power, dont let the man keep you down, etc.

/This isnt 'Nam, Smokey. There are rules.

[Lohman446]

At 1AM in the morning officers are pulling you over because you're a kid? They can tell that in a moving vehicle in the dark?

One of my buddies thinks the cops always disrespect him. He is always in a foul mood by the time they walk up to the window, and makes no effort to hide it. He almost always gets written fully.

I generally have shrugged, said oops, and have my paperwork readily accessible. Oh, and I greet the officer as they approach. Most of the time I get a break.

I'm sure its the cops though.

[kosmo]

Oh, and before I forget, always remember that it is your second ammendment right to shoot government oppressors. Be sure and verbally remind the cop of that before he writes you a ticket.

[WingMan13]

Oh, and before I forget, always remember that it is your second ammendment right to shoot government oppressors. Be sure and verbally remind the cop of that before he writes you a ticket.

Please, don't offer that kind of advice to someone else when you dont have the testicular fortitude to do it yourself. Trust me you wouldn't walk away with just a ticket.
But oh, let me guess, your gonna say you have told this to an officer have b4...how typical.

[kosmo]

You new 'round these parts, boy?

[punkncat]

About that DUI discussion.....
its important to point out that its an officers job to arrest people for DUI when suspected. Many more people make it home w/o being pulled over than get caught. The few that do get caught are just that. You get caught up in a situation, a system that is designed to back up the officers opinion. Look at it this way, IF you are leaving a bar after drinking, driving yourself and get caught...how many times did you make it w/o getting caught?
How much easier would it have been to take advice and use a designated driver or rent a cab KNOWING how easy it is to get a DUI?
How much does it take for you to drink and finally admit that you are too drunk to drive? Knowing that alcohol effects your ability to objectivly make that decision I would be willing to bet that for most people that point is well over 2-3 times the legal limit.

As for the lawyer, its his JOB to point out the imperfections in the currect system of determination. He gets payed by being good at finding and capitalizing on those loopholes. Its not that he is a scumbag persay, its just what makes the bills for him.

Hell, I would be willing to bet that a good number of people that were stone sober couldn't pass the sobriety tests in place. Thats just the way it is.

I lost my left foot due to poor judgement after driving home from a bar. I will never again get behind the wheel of a vehicle after drinking even so much as one beer. My $40 bar tab and what could have been a $25 cab ride turned into something I can never take back and almost a half million in hospital bills.

Sorry about your luck bro, but the best thing you can do is to take the punishment, take it seriously and learn something from it. Don't drink and drive....at all.

[acropilot19]

Don't get me wrong, I am glad that no one was taken away in handcuffs. I was going to suggest she take the 3rd test to prove him wrong, but she was already scared and shaking. She knew she wasn't drunk, or the LEAST bit impaired. She had a "blonde moment" at the wrong time and wrong place and almost had to go to jail and take a blood test to prove the officer was wrong. His test was so incredibly stupid, because it was clear she was not impaired. It put a bad taste in my mouth because I wanted him to give her a breathalizer test, but he said he didn't have one and it wasn't an option. That would have removed all doubt from the situation. I am figuring that when done right, the tests can be effective. I believe the officer realized from that test that she was not drunk, she had a clear record, and was not impaired, which is why he did not arrest her. I guess he was trying to teach a lesson.. which he did.. as she only drank on special occasions before and now she's stopped drinking in general.

One of the more delicate parts of being an Officer is the uh,... how to phrase... the socio-political aspect of dealing with the public on a daily basis. After all, you pay our salary, and we are there to provide a service to you. Dealing with Turds all day does tend to sour ones attitude. I try to approach each contact with as smooth & as calm a demeanor as possible. Even up to the point were i'm about to club somebody, I'm always trying to win the war with "Verbal Judo" first. Speak softly and carry a BIG stick, as Teddy said.

In your case, it sounds like the Officer was all business, and left the tact at home. Sometimes its hard to be nice, and some people just arent. I know a few cops that go into every contact with full deflector shields up- thats just how they operate & survive. I have found that the energy I bring into a contact is usually what is reflected back at me, not always, but usually. I like being nice. I'm a soft-spoken guy, and I find that works well in most situations.

I would have tried to be as pleasant as possible with your friend and you, explaining everything in a clear and professional manner, assisting her through the process, and proceeding from there. I have had many people (even a few that i've arrested) complement me on my demeanor. Especially when I end up NOT hooking that person, theres a better chance they will leave the encounter having learned something usefull, and will have an experience they can positively pass on to others.

It works for me.

[Swampy]

Sorry about your luck bro, but the best thing you can do is to take the punishment, take it seriously and learn something from it. Don't drink and drive....at all.

Very true.

I have to fight it anyways because if I lose my license I will lose my job even with a occupational license. And that straight from the bosses mouth. One his insurance will go up, two with a occupational license will let me drive to work but won't let me drive any commercial motor truck or car that not CDL required, no commercial truck that requires a CDL, and won't let me operate commercial equipment I.E. a lawn mower, skid steer, not even a weed whacker (its considered equipment not a tool).

Has their been anykind of hardship thingy given? If I lose my job then I can't pay the ticket, court costs, get to school, pay rent, pay bills, and such.

Also my first court date is tomorrow and we have about 6 to 8 inches of snow coming tonight and about 3 to 4 coming tomorrow. Do they cancel and move court dates because of the snow? I think that other people would have trouble getting there.

[acropilot19]

About that DUI discussion.....
Hell, I would be willing to bet that a good number of people that were stone sober couldn't pass the sobriety tests in place. Thats just the way it is.

AAAAAGH! Field Sobriety Tests are NOT Pass/Fail! They are a Standardized Baseline set of tasks we have people perform that allow Officers to observe your ability to multitask, and your motorfunctional impairment. We write down our observations. Thats it. NoPassFail.

We ask a standardized, detailed set of Pre-FST questions prior to administering the FST's so we have a history on which to better interpret our observations. Your medical Hx, Drug Hx, Sleep Hx, Eating Hx, Driving Hx, etc...

-If you have a bum knee, we know because we asked. If you have a fake eye, we can see it, and we know because we asked. If you're taking OTC meds, have vertigo, slept only 3 seconds in the last 10 days, your car's steering is out of allignment, have lousey balance, were changing the radio station, or the battery in one of your three pacemakers just exploded, WE KNOW, because we asked.

This stuff aint willy-nilly, sing the alphabet backwards while doing the Macarena BS, its a well thought out & vigorously tested (Science & Case Law) way of observing Signs of Impairment.

Signs of Impairment.
Get me?

[punkncat]

AAAAAGH! Field Sobriety Tests are NOT Pass/Fail! They are a Standardized Baseline set of tasks we have people perform that allow Officers to observe your ability to multitask, and your motorfunctional impairment. We write down our observations. Thats it. NoPassFail.

We ask a standardized, detailed set of Pre-FST questions prior to administering the FST's so we have a history on which to better interpret our observations. Your medical Hx, Drug Hx, Sleep Hx, Eating Hx, Driving Hx, etc...

-If you have a bum knee, we know because we asked. If you have a fake eye, we can see it, and we know because we asked. If you're taking OTC meds, have vertigo, slept only 3 seconds in the last 10 days, your car's steering is out of allignment, have lousey balance, were changing the radio station, or the battery in one of your three pacemakers just exploded, WE KNOW, because we asked.

This stuff aint willy-nilly, sing the alphabet backwards while doing the Macarena BS, its a well thought out & vigorously tested (Science & Case Law) way of observing Signs of Impairment.

Signs of Impairment.
Get me?

Look brother, belive me I am on your side about the deal. Every time you take a drunk driver off the road you are making them (roads) a safer place to be.
It would be foolish to think that the tests that were put in place favor the person whom you are possibly going to arrest. That is simply not true. These tests were designed as a challenge that people who are less than impaired would easily and recognizably fail, thus backing the officers opinion that they were "less than safe".
They may not be pass or fail, but they certainly are used to back up probable cause for arrest or not arrest. These tests are used as a legal basis to allow the furthering of your investigation. In my book arrest=fail.
Most people, even sober, cannot pass the test. I read a report somewhere about it, and unfortunatly don't know where to look for it again, but the jist of it was that they went onto a college and asked 100 people to take the tests and the officer who observed would have used the evidence he found as a basis for saying that most were impaired. They were all sober and on school campus at the time. All young, healty and able bodied people. If they can raise suspicion then how does it bode for the general public?
I mean how many people actually are adept at leaning their head back and touching their nose first try? How about while on one foot?
How many people practice walking a straight line heel to toe and wouldn't bobble a bit?

I am not sure if these are some of the tests you use, but they are here, and I can tell ya, sober or not, I would not get them right the first time.

I cite a few things I just found

"Consider the research funded by the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA), which resulted in the later adoption of the so-called "standardized" field sobriety tests. In a 1977 study, researchers determined that the three most effective field sobriety tests (FSTs) were walk-and-turn, one-leg stand, and horizontal gaze nystagmus. Yet, even using just these supposedly more accurate tests, the researchers found that 47 percent of the subjects who would have been arrested based upon test performance actually had blood-alcohol concentrations of less than the legal limit of. 10 percent. In other words, almost half of all persons 'failing" the tests were not legally under the influence of alcohol!"

"It is important to understand that these tests can be difficult for a sober person to "pass" (a subjective determination by the officer). "


It is important to note that during my searching I did also come up with results that back the results of the standardized testing, especially in the areas where an experianced officer has been using the same standardized test for a number of years.

[Lohman446]

I'd "fail" the tests, take the BAC test, and prove to the officer I was not impaired, simply uncordinated.

It would be no big deal.

The basis of the charge is not failing the tests, its failing a scientific and controlled BAC test.

[93civiccpe]

Hey acropilot19, thanks for the very intelligent reply. I agree with you, and think the officer was a little too serious. I'm glad that it didn't go any further.. looking back he could have been a real jerk and made that night a lot longer for us, so I have to count my blessings anyways. I am glad he was there, and am glad for every driver who was really under the influence that the boys in blue have taken off the streets for us.

I also have come to a sad realization that a lot of our police officers do not carry or use breathalizer tests. Apparently, due to the fact that if you have just recently put alcohol in your mouth, it can cause a higher reading. Thus, due to that being proven using that test versus the blood tests, a lot of courts throw it out if you don't have the accompanying blood test confirming it. Now, those breathalizers are also not cheap, so that means the state is paying for those as well as the blood tests. Therefore, a lot of areas are using the scientific tests you are referring to and allowing the office to judge if the person is impaired and needing to go get a blood test. It saves money. I guess for those who just happen to have those "blonde" moments might be inconvenienced from time to time, but in the end the blood test will be the conclusive evidence.

After thinking it over for a while, I really do not have a problem with those tests. If it takes a dangerous driver off the road that is good for them and for the rest of us sharing the streets with them.

[acropilot19]

I'd "fail" the tests, take the BAC test, and prove to the officer I was not impaired, simply uncordinated.

The basis of the charge is not failing the tests, its failing a scientific and controlled BAC test.

NOPASSFAIL-NOPASSFAIL-NOPASSFAIL!!!

...hmmm...let me try a different angle...

Red watery eyes, slurred speach, distinct odor of alcohol on breath & emitting from person, unsteady gait, diminished fine-motor skills, trouble following multi-step instructions, weaving in a circular motion while standing still, altered sense of time, etc....

Signs of Impairment.

Individually, they mean little, but start stacking them up, and youre leading me somewhere.

I look at your eyes, I see Nystagmus, Big indicator. Not proof in and of itself, and there are medical reasons to disregard, but added to a few of the first group, is huge.

Walk & Turn, One leg Stand, Rhomburg stand. How do you follow directions? Do I need to repeat myself 2-3 or more times. Do you still forget even after I remind you? How is your timing, do you rush through, or take way to long to complete simple tasks?

Signs of Impairment.

You build your jail-cell one brick at a time.

If you can "Fail" these tests, then take the BAC test & pass, then I start looking for other drugs.

Lousy balance, nervous shaking, being cold, etc... are not necessarily signs of impairment, but are still noted as part of the investigation.

As human beings in the modern age, we multitask without even thinking about it. Driving requires lotsa multitasking. Hell, just walking requires multitasking, our brain & central nervous system just do most of it on the downlo.

When you are impaired, multitasking goes out the window. Now you must focus on the simple tasks. Removing your wallet from your back pocket. Walking & talking at the same time. Holding a conversation on multiple subjects. An impaired person must stop doing one thing before he/she can start doing another, kinda like shifting gears in your car. Its really easy to see when they "shift". They have to stop, think about the transition, then start the new task. This may only take a second, but its a pause that most dont exhibit.

Signs of Impairment.

Put all of these together, and thats just some of what I'm looking at.

[Lohman446]

I didn't mean to imply a cut and dry pass and fail, however it seemed the easiest term to use for this discussion.