Guns, guns, guns

[Pneumagger]

Governments LOVE gun control.

Gun control is not about the guns... it's about the control.

[MANN]

You wouldn't need to defend yourself is the point. Get a big pooch if you want defense.

I have two HUGE dogs. Max is taller than me (5'10"), and weighs at least 125. He has a Huge bark, and it is followed with an even larger bite (unfortuently I know as I stepped in the middle of a dog fight. bad decision) They are good to keep "honest thieves" off of my property, and out of my house. If someone wanted by them all they would have to do is shoot them. To my knowledge dogs are not bullet proof.

My handgun on the other hand is immune to gun fire, and will stop most thieves in their tracks.

[Army]

When life and death at the hands of a criminal is measured in seconds......the Police are only minutes away.

Your personal opinion is just that, yours. The facts speak volumes on firearm ownership and the crimes thwarted by them when used by the law abiding. Crimes are stopped or avoided nearly two million times a year by gun owners.


Gotta go. Mortars inbound.

[Twistedpsyche]

Devilman, Pneumagger, Pmstc have made some great points, but they miss one key point.

Ultimately we have to look at the founding fathers intent. All the rights recognized in the constitution are seen as God given and inalienable. Whether you believe in God or not is not the purpose of this discussion, but here is the point. These rights are just that RECOGNIZED not GRANTED. That is important because it shows that these rights are the rights of all free men and can not be taken away by man. Free men can own guns, slaves can not.

So debate all you want, list reasons one should or should not be allowed to own guns and what kind of gun. It is all moot. Free persons have the right to choose for themselves. Free persons have the right and responsiblity to protect themselves, their loved ones and their property. Free persons have the right to own guns just because they are fun to use. Free persons have many more rights as recognized by the constitution. Men can not take these rights away. They can try, but ultimately free persons every where will rebel because we know what it is to be free!!!

[Pneumagger]

...
My handgun on the other hand is immune to gun fire, and will stop most thieves in their tracks.

Your handgun is not immune to mine... I guaruntee it.

[Destructo6]

Either way, hunting rifles are too bulky for any gang to really want them.

Why would you discuss hunting rifles? The 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution does not mention hunting in any shape or form. It is hunting firearms, not particularly suited for militia use, that are not protected by the Constitution.

And, yeah, I do carry are firearm (or two) 24/7, even when not part of the job. I've also run across quite a few folks who wished they'd had one, even when their aggressors did not (multiples).

Add to that that police cannot be expected to be on-scene in time to stop an attack, let alone prevent it, nor do they even have an obligation to protect any particular individual, rather to protect "society" as a whole.

In this area, home invasions for the purpose of drug rip-offs, are a near daily occurance. Often, these rip-off teams are comprised of aliens, using stolen firearms. Almost as often, they hit the wrong house, putting some oblivious home owner in the position of defending home and family.

[pmstc]

Devilman, Pneumagger, Pmstc have made some great points, but they miss one key point.

Ultimately we have to look at the founding fathers intent. All the rights recognized in the constitution are seen as God given and inalienable. Whether you believe in God or not is not the purpose of this discussion, but here is the point. These rights are just that RECOGNIZED not GRANTED. That is important because it shows that these rights are the rights of all free men and can not be taken away by man. Free men have can own guns, slaves can not.

So debate all you want, list reasons one should or should not be allowed to own guns and what kind of gun. It is all mute. Free persons have the right to choose for themselves. Free persons have the right and responsiblity to protect themselves, their loved ones and their property. Free persons have the right to own guns just because they are fun to use. Free persons have many more rights as recognized by the constitution. Men can not take these rights away. They can try, but ultimately free persons every where will rebel because we know what it is to be free!!!

It's a 'moot' point not 'mute'
but yes, this is all true.

However, since when have our constitutional rights been respected?

But yes, the second amendment was written in the constitution to give power to the people.

Governments should be afraid of their citizens, not the other way around.

[Target Practice]

Just posting to remind people that ensuring your personal safety is NOT the job of law enforcement. They are not there to guard your stuff or your person. They are there to enforce the laws and keep the peace.

Anyone who thinks I don't "need" a gun can go piss up a rope.

[Pneumagger]

How is one supposed to just "piss up a rope" and what would be the fruits of such labor?

[Twistedpsyche]

How is one supposed to just "piss up a rope" and what would be the fruits of such labor?

I too am curious about this.. having never heard this expression.
Is this the same as telling one to "go pound sand" ?

Oh yes, moot, that's what I meant. Silly me.

[CoolHand]

The fundamental disconnect between the Canadians (Eh?) and us Americans, is that from our outset, the people have always been encouraged to be suspicious and even distrustful of the government, and rightly so. Ever see any fascist dictators take over our country by using the blind obedience of the people? Nope, and you're never gonna either. Ever see a government official overstep their boundaries and get hauled back in and called to the carpet to explain/face punishment? You're damned right you have, 'cause there is always someone watching and making sure the people we ALLOW to steer the power of our government, don't misuse it.

Checks and balances, the ultimate form of which is armed public revolt. I **** you not. This is EXACTLY how things were set up here, ON PURPOSE. The folks who founded this nation had lived under the thumb of a king, and had seen what the aristocracy did to their countries (and others). They would not have it here, so the limited the power of the government intentionally with all manner of checks and balances to prevent what they saw happening time and again in Europe and elsewhere. If all else failed, the arms in the hands of the people could "hit the reset button" again, just as they had done in 1776. That was their intention. To suggest otherwise is to twist the words on the page to your own devices, and is an insult to the great men who founded this country, and all the great men who've since died defending it.

Be happy that you Canadians have a benevolent dictator, for one day if you should find that you are no longer so fortunate, you will also find that you have no recourse.

"A government large enough to give you everything that you want, is strong enough to take everything that you have." - Thomas Jefferson

That's the disconnect.

You're trustful of your elected officials (I cannot fathom why, but it's your country), and you're confident that the police will be there to protect you (again, I believe this to be a delusion, but it's your life, spend it as you will).

We do not trust our politicians any farther than we can throw them, and we know that our personal protection is our personal responsibility.

This is our country, and this is how we like it to be run (there are problems we need to fix, but a fundamental reshaping of our way of life is NOT the solution we're looking for). We don't need your, or anyone else's permission to conduct our affairs as we see fit, just as you do not need ours.

If you're happy not being able to own an AR-15, fine. But I enjoy mine, and all it's brothers and sisters as well. They are mine, and as a free man, it is my right to own and enjoy them as I see fit.

I tell you what, I'll not speak ill of Canadians for having the system of government they do, if you'll not speak ill of us for ours? Deal?

Otherwise, this is going to get ugly, 'cause there's no way I can make you understand how important our weapons are to us, and there is no way you are going to be able to convince me that your way is "better".

[Twistedpsyche]

Very well said!!!

[Pneumagger]

Pssshhhh.... Candians.

Well how about this, freind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3HEEysErzQ

[LK-13]

oddly enough,
did you know that the world record for a "Sniper Kill Shot" belongs to a Canadian Sniper.

http://www.snipercountry.com/articles/killingshot_2430metres.asp

http://www.macleans.ca/canada/nation..._126689_126689
did you know that the USMC Sniper Program was based upon a book called "A RIFLEMAN WENT TO WAR" written by a Canadian WWI Sniper.

http://www.warbooks.com/RWTW.html

to bad our government has some of the policies it does.
but i can't tell you what those policies are,
if i did, word might get out
and the illusion that we have no real defenses might be lost.

The fundamental disconnect between the Canadians (Eh?) and us Americans, is that from our outset, the people have always been encouraged to be suspicious and even distrustful of the government, and rightly so. Ever see any fascist dictators take over our country by using the blind obedience of the people? Nope, and you're never gonna either. Ever see a government official overstep their boundaries and get hauled back in and called to the carpet to explain/face punishment? You're damned right you have, 'cause there is always someone watching and making sure the people we ALLOW to steer the power of our government, don't misuse it.

Checks and balances, the ultimate form of which is armed public revolt. I **** you not. This is EXACTLY how things were set up here, ON PURPOSE. The folks who founded this nation had lived under the thumb of a king, and had seen what the aristocracy did to their countries (and others). They would not have it here, so the limited the power of the government intentionally with all manner of checks and balances to prevent what they saw happening time and again in Europe and elsewhere. If all else failed, the arms in the hands of the people could "hit the reset button" again, just as they had done in 1776. That was their intention. To suggest otherwise is to twist the words on the page to your own devices, and is an insult to the great men who founded this country, and all the great men who've since died defending it.

Be happy that you Canadians have a benevolent dictator, for one day if you should find that you are no longer so fortunate, you will also find that you have no recourse.

"A government large enough to give you everything that you want, is strong enough to take everything that you have." - Thomas Jefferson

That's the disconnect.

You're trustful of your elected officials (I cannot fathom why, but it's your country), and you're confident that the police will be there to protect you (again, I believe this to be a delusion, but it's your life, spend it as you will).

We do not trust our politicians any farther than we can throw them, and we know that our personal protection is our personal responsibility.

This is our country, and this is how we like it to be run (there are problems we need to fix, but a fundamental reshaping of our way of life is NOT the solution we're looking for). We don't need your, or anyone else's permission to conduct our affairs as we see fit, just as you do not need ours.

If you're happy not being able to own an AR-15, fine. But I enjoy mine, and all it's brothers and sisters as well. They are mine, and as a free man, it is my right to own and enjoy them as I see fit.

I tell you what, I'll not speak ill of Canadians for having the system of government they do, if you'll not speak ill of us for ours? Deal?

Otherwise, this is going to get ugly, 'cause there's no way I can make you understand how important our weapons are to us, and there is no way you are going to be able to convince me that your way is "better".

[LK-13]

no matter to out come of this thread.
My Grand Father on my mother's side died a hero in WWII crossing the "Gothic Line" in Italy, with a Bren LMG in his hand.
My Uncle David on my mother's side died in Holland driving the German's out in WWII with a Lee-Enfield SMLE Mk. III in his hand.
My Uncle Norm McLaughlin landed with THE BIG RED ONE on Omaha Beach Normandy.
He was the only member of my extended family to live to tell the tale.
My Uncle Norm told me that he carried the Colt 1911, six of them in fact when ever he could find them.
he said that pistol was the only thing that kept him alive.
the only things he would have traded it for was a Thompson or a ticket home.

i want a 1911, but I'm Canadian.
As long as I live inside Canada's borders
the chances I will ever own/shoot a Colt Model 1911 are very remote.


RIP Norm McLaughlin. you are truely missed.