Olympic judges

[bornl33t]

I'm passionately against letting China host the Olympic games. They should not have been granted the honor with their record of human right violations, etc.

That being said I'm hearing a lot of complaining about the judges this year. Many coaches are really upset with the judging. I was hearing an Italian complaining about how the judges rated the American women gymnasts.
On top of that China has been using athletes that are obviously under age. Is it just me or do the Olympics seem more like a farce then ever?

[Warwitch]

I was just having this conversation with my wife. I think it ironic. China wanted to host the Olympics so bad so they could get exposure. And personally I think its come back to bite them in the heiney. From the obviously uneven judging, little lip-synch girl and underage gymnists to the human rights violations. China hasnt changed nearly as much as they want the world to believe.

Lets think about it; Could you imagine the reaction if the USA's govt. said "Were hoting the Olympics in New York so everybody stop all construction for two months. Oh and only a couple of you can drive each day." ?? Never happen. But this is China. Where "you still do what we tell you to or else."

[teufelhunden]

The Cuban diving judge/s gave the Chinese (effectively) all 10s... and everybody else scores in the range of 7-8. I suppose China is good, but that good? Especially when the scores are fairly out of line with the rest of the judges?

Gymnastics have been bad, obviously some of the Chinese are under 16 (some Western news outlet dug up Chinese (state-run) media reports about those girls from earlier in the year which stated that they were 13/14 -- http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080814/...erage_chinese).

It's good that some more light is being shed on what China is and does- people who normally wouldn't seek that information out are being exposed. The way they treat their athletes (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/oth...ms-coach.html), the way their religious freedom works (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080817/...es_confiscated ... read through it), censoring and the borderline insanity of the Chinese gov't re: these games, as well as how political things like heads of state appearing at the opening ceremonies are (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...le4547323.ece).

Bad stuff. IOC should really be ashamed of it's lack of follow through with this, and they should be ashamed with giving what is supposed to be athletics' most hallowed events to a country that is complacent in genocide and practically proud of their continued occupation of a (formerly?) sovereign nation.

[DevilMan]

We got into this discussion on another board, well close to it.

This is one of the reasons why I feel that Olympic "GAMES" should be SPORTS. And by sports I mean activities that have a WIN and LOSE score. I don't think that any competition that has "judges" belongs in the Olympics. You run the fastest, shoot the straightest, jump the highest, swim the fastest, etc... You win. You do any of those slower than the other guy and well you don't win. Pretty simple really.

That's my take on it. Anything that you win or lose according to a judge/panel of judges is not a SPORT. Its a competition. Then people did the "What about Chess and Checkers then" to which I place the label of GAMES on. Games are activities of opposing forces that are MENTAL based. It matters not your physical stamina or health to win a game of chess.

So there to me are Sports, Games, Competitions.

The Olympics should consist only of SPORTS.

DM

[Warwitch]

Semantics DM. We play football, baseball, soccer, etc. games even though they are sports. But I do get your point. The element of judges gives the potential for biased or even arbitrary scoring. But again, the same could be said for reffing. All legitmate sports have some governing authority. And we would be nieve to think that politics could be left out of international competition of any kind.

[Bolter]

Well Ive really enjoyed the Olympics this year, and I just smile at the Chinese way of doing things. After all if they were all like Americans, this world would be very ....... different. China is not a flawless country, but then again who's country is?

Plus team GB is doing quite well, so Im happy

[Warwitch]

Gruntbull has an Olympic team? :dry:

[Bolter]

Gruntbull has an Olympic team? :dry:

? ?

[DevilMan]

Semantics DM. We play football, baseball, soccer, etc. games even though they are sports. But I do get your point. The element of judges gives the potential for biased or even arbitrary scoring. But again, the same could be said for reffing. All legitmate sports have some governing authority. And we would be nieve to think that politics could be left out of international competition of any kind.

Yes and the bias is in reffing as well. And like everything noone can always see what goes on. But then there are the rules as I said. The sports that are in the olympics should for the most part be ref/judge free. Running?? No refs. You don't touch anyone else you stay in your lane you run. Shotput... No refs... You chuck the ball the best you can. Drug testing yes. It shouldn't be considered a REFing thing. I mean it's not that difficult to test for them and yes I know someone will always try to push the envelope but it's one of those things of have the stuff that has a cut & dry basis of scoring.

And it's not semantics. There are MORE than enough ways to film every player on the field at one time. It won't take much. There are ample ways to catch cheaters. Take for instance the tennis deal where the guy hit the ball with the tip of his racket but didn't claim it and went on to win. Would he have won anyway??? Maybe so. But that don't mean that he shouldn't have lost that point/serve. It was easy to see on the video review of it. Even if the guy "didn't feel it" don't mean it didn't happen. Can you say, "Paint Check"?

That's all I'm saying.... I think there should be honor in the Olympics and I think they should do away with Synchro Diving and Swimming and the gymnastics part. I think they should do SPORTS that have a win/lose scoring system.

Oh and as for the politics of it... I don't think there should be any thing to do with the politics in it either. Think of it as the international competition for selected sports. You compete locally, regional, state, national then you get to compete against the head of the class for the rest of the world. As for the politics and real world stuff that's happening. As long as the country can supply a safe place for all competitors to be for the few weeks then they should be allowed to host.

That's all.

DM

[Warwitch]

? ?

It was a terribly dry joke. You know, everyone just assumes that the US is oblivious to the rest of the world. When I hear 'GB' on a paintball forum I just assume they mean Gruntbull (even though I know youre a limey )



I am not funny (again/still?).







Aaaaaaanyways, I agree with you DM. Im all for the instant replay in ANY sport/game.

[Hilltop Customs]

And it's not semantics. There are MORE than enough ways to film every player on the field at one time. It won't take much. There are ample ways to catch cheaters. Take for instance the tennis deal where the guy hit the ball with the tip of his racket but didn't claim it and went on to win. Would he have won anyway??? Maybe so. But that don't mean that he shouldn't have lost that point/serve. It was easy to see on the video review of it. Even if the guy "didn't feel it" don't mean it didn't happen. Can you say, "Paint Check"?
DM

wait, hitting a tennis ball with the tip of the racket is illegal? thats about the dumbest rule Ive ever heard of, not only is it next to impossible to enforce by judges.....it self enforces, because if you hit the ball with the tip there is a high probability you wont get it across the net in bounds.

I argree the politics invovled in selecting the host, and in the games themselves are just plain stupid. It takes away from the glory of the athletes, instead of each athlete being recognized they are just grouped up in medal counts for each country.

easiest way to put it....the olympics have been nationalized and commercialized. I love watching the games themselves, but the commentary and news coverage of it is so US biased it makes me change the channel.

The only reason we give a crap about the age of the Chinese gymnasts is because we lost to them. If we would have won, I'm doubtful that anyone would have heard a word about their ages

Our news coverage made a big deal out of LIP SINGING during the OLYMPIC GAMES......seriously wtf.

[DevilMan]

wait, hitting a tennis ball with the tip of the racket is illegal? thats about the dumbest rule Ive ever heard of, not only is it next to impossible to enforce by judges.....it self enforces, because if you hit the ball with the tip there is a high probability you wont get it across the net in bounds.

No HC.... The ball was going long... as in out of bounds. But he swung at it and tipped it just the same as he thought it was in bounds. So it tipped the top of the racket but it was hardly noticable and it would have been out anyway, but the player didn't call it and even after the video showed it touching he still didn't give up the point or call a redo or anything like that. And even though it was shown him tipping it the "judges" didn't call it back to a re-serve and what not.

It's like basketball where you are out of bounds in the air and you throw the ball back in bounds and it hits off another guy and goes out. Then it's out on him not on you.

Sorry if I was vague about the whole thing, but you can google it for more details.

And yeah I was about the lip syncing as well. I mean for "good" reason so to speak but still, they shouldn't try this stuff in this day and age because when you want to make an impression while the whole world watches, that impression shouldn't be that you like to bend rules.

DM

[Warwitch]

The lip synch thing is just a perfect metaphor for China's attitude. The girl could sing but wasnt pretty enough for TV. So instead of giving her the credit and pride of singing for her country they bring in a showpiece (a la Milli Vanilli) to preserve their image. Thats crap.

The under age gymnist is the same. It says "we break rules to win". Period. Again, thats crap.

Yes our broadcasts are biased as well. But I havent seen any poor judging going in the USA's favor.



Edit: I should add that I have loved watching the Olympics this year. Always humbling.

[Eatem Alive]

Yes our broadcasts are biased as well. But I havent seen any poor judging going in the USA's favor.

If anything, I've heard US announcers being very complimentary to other countries athletes. I haven't heard any overtly biased broadcasts.

[Hilltop Customs]

DevilMan oohh, that makes more sense....yea if the guy knew he touched the ball he definitely should have said something, but if it was a light enough touch that it didnt significantly change the direction of the ball, he might not have even known himself.

Warwitch, I agree if any person breaks the rules they should be punished. But dont forget a few of our own athletes have been caught or admitted to cheating too....this is not a problem created by China, its a problem created by people wanting to win. Our reporters blame China, how can you blame a country for a few peoples mistakes?

and about the lip singing, no one ever mentioned this but maybe the "ugly" girl didnt want to sing....I know I wouldnt want to go in front of millions of viewers. Once again we report against China without unbiased research into the reasons behind , aka spreading nationalistic propaganda. And once again it was a decision of a few people buy yet we label it "China's decision"




anyway back on topic, the judges have very specific criteria for scoring and judging, the ambiguity comes in with deductions. I know the for the one gymnasts routine they took a good 5 minutes debating the starting score of a routine before the girl even stepped on the floor. If the judges are respectful of the games, they should judge based on the routine and not on the nationality of the athlete.

All in all, I think the focus on the nations athletes represent should be removed from the games and it would solve a lot of the problems(with biased scoring)......but it would bring about another problem, no one would care about the games since they are not being represented.