Nitrogen in gas

[Lohman446]

One major company is adding nitrogen to gas... or at least advertising this.

Coincidentally we have been seeing a lot of fuel related running issues that are attributed directly to this brand since that change a couple weeks ago.

Coincidence? Thoughts?

[chafnerjr]

Shell from what I am reading huh? They say it's a cleaning additive... and a marketing ploy just like anything else. I don't see anyone screaming on the interwebs so who knows... there stuff is too expensive anyways. What kind of problems are you seeing? Nitrogen is inert so I'd be interested to see what it is reacting with... or is it perhaps a specific gas station that your having issues with? (water in the gas???)

[Lohman446]

Thats kinda what is throwing me, what possible benefit could nitrogen be. If anything it would be a volumnizer which would drop mileage I would think.

Running issues, light to heavy smoke on start, misfire codes set and misfire experienced, hesitations on accel.

It might be one station related, but between myself and the few other shops I routinely talk with we are well past double digits of vehicles that we have attributed the problem directly towards fuel, and they have all been from the local Shell.

[ultralight]

Ive been experiencing the same problems, rough start, misfires...
My truck has been throwing codes for a while, so I started with a tune-up, EGR, TPS, coolant temp sensor, and O2 sensor. (they were needed anyway). You can imagine my surprise when the truck was still running rough.

I've been suspecting the local shell. I recently added a bottle of HEET to 1/4 tank of the shell gass when I was experiencing problems and the misfires cleared up before I got to the gas station to top off the tank. (non-shell within 2 miles)

The funny thing is that I went through a tank of non-shell gas without problems and then went back to shell to see if they came back. They didn't. I'm a little confused, but still staying away from shell if i can help it.

[chafnerjr]

Yea... it sounds like that station in particular. From everything that I've continued reading there's no negative to the nitrogen itself. There might not be any positive but I'm not finding a single negative other then it being shear marketing. Nitrogen is far less dense then the hydrocarbons that make us the gas so that should give too much volume either. Some people even believe that their gas mileage is up 30% using the stuff... sounds like crap to me, but I still can't find a negative to it.

I would go talk with the station owner... maybe he's being sold crap gas or there a leak in his gas storage tanks!

[kevdupuis]

As far as I'm concerned there's so much crap added to gasoline that vehicles are getting worse mileage than they should, if I want a cleaner in my gas I'll pour a can in the tank every couple months and run it through.

[spwz99]

Adding more nitrogen to the fuel shouldn't do anything to actually help 'clean' the engine. What it will do is lower the flame temperature inside the cylinder, thus lowering NOX emissions.

So, technically, they can say that the engine is running 'cleaner,' but adding any inert compound to the combustion process will lower the efficiency of the engine, so I don't know how people can claim an increase in MPG.

[chafnerjr]

so I don't know how people can claim an increase in MPG.

I agree... but people like to claim all sorts of $#!t all the time. That's what makes this all a pain in the @$$.

[Lohman446]

Adding more nitrogen to the fuel shouldn't do anything to actually help 'clean' the engine. What it will do is lower the flame temperature inside the cylinder, thus lowering NOX emissions.

So, technically, they can say that the engine is running 'cleaner,' but adding any inert compound to the combustion process will lower the efficiency of the engine, so I don't know how people can claim an increase in MPG.

Won't lowering the flame temperature throw off old concepts... such as a hotter burning plug to more completely burn? If I am lowering the flame temperature would I not have to compensate the plug temperature as well? What about getting warm enough for the cat. converter to work at its most efficient?

[chafnerjr]

Won't lowering the flame temperature throw off old concepts... such as a hotter burning plug to more completely burn? If I am lowering the flame temperature would I not have to compensate the plug temperature as well? What about getting warm enough for the cat. converter to work at its most efficient?

[insixdays777]

I am so stoked about this! Cant wait to get a tank and then burn my friends hardcore. HAHA those fools droped 2G on nitrous setups...should have waited for Shell to hook them up...this is going to be dope!!!!!!!!! Vin and Paul ant got nothing on this! 2F2F boyezzz!

[Hilltop Customs]

I am so stoked about this! Cant wait to get a tank and then burn my friends hardcore. HAHA those fools droped 2G on nitrous setups...should have waited for Shell to hook them up...this is going to be dope!!!!!!!!! Vin and Paul ant got nothing on this! 2F2F boyezzz!

[skife]

sounds like high compression/boosted applications are going to experience spark knock.

if its lowering ignition temps we are going to get detonation

[spwz99]

It doesn't actually lower the temperature at which combustion occurs. It lowers the temperature of the combustion products, and since NOX is not a direct product of combustion, but forms in the high temperatures after combustion is complete. What adding inert gases like Nitrogen, or ERG, to the combustion chamber does is draw energy away from the combustion process to heat up elements that add no energy to the reaction. Thats why the temperature is lower.

As far as I know that wouldn't affect anything to do with the combustion or ignition itself. As long as you don't add so much inert gas that there is not enough oxygen to fuel combustion.

As far as the catalytic converter goes, I don't think you will see exhaust temperatures drop so low that it fails to work effectively. I am guessing they only add enough Nitrogen to lower the combustion temperature a hundred degrees or so.