looking for a sub compact pistol

[punkncat]

Walther PPK......it's good enough for 007.......

[Lohman446]

Sig P238? Not sure it was mentioned but its pretty impressive. Killer on 380s is training cost

[SSP REAPER]

I don't care so much about size, but my everyday carry is a Glock model 22 in .40 S&W
I wear it in a Bianchi Shadow holster and all is good

But, if your looking for a lot of bang out of pocket sized, stick with the XD9 in Sub compact form. They are great pistols and will do everything you need and more.

[MANN]

But, if your looking for a lot of bang out of pocket sized, stick with the XD9 in Sub compact form. They are great pistols and will do everything you need and more.

I would love to be able to carry a pistol of that size and caliber, but that is not a "pocket" sized pistol. I don't like others to know that I have a pistol.

[Lohman446]

The unfortunate thing is some people cannot get over the fact that a Glock 26, a XD "subcompact" and Smith and Wesson Airweight are not pocketable guns, not in normal everyday clothing at least. The reference to "mouseguns" is often done with disdain. That being said a 22 in your pocket is better than a 12 gauge in your truck. A 32 is even better in your pocket, and the list goes up from there.

I carry a G26 or SP101 almost all the time. That being said they are in very expensive holsters on a very expensive gun belt with carefully selected clothes. And PS - around here you can get away with a bit of "printing" through clothing.

Not everyone has the luxury of setting there own dress code. My P3AT could be carried when I was wearing virtually anything and concealed. I would like another one of those "throw in the pocket" guns for occasions where I don't feel like a "compact" gun. For those doing it with airweight revolvers you are wearing different clothing than I do.

The guns we carry are not fighting guns. We do ourselves a disservice as we think of 40 and 45 (or 357) as great gun rounds - they are great carryable pistol rounds. The fact is they have a lot more in common with a 22 than a real round out of a fighting gun. Handguns are the daggers of yesteryear - someone good can make them useful, but not as useful as any number of long guns. You will be outgunned by virtually any long gun, and you better have a serious amount of skill and training to overcome it. Too often people think of the 45 and 357 as the ultimate rounds. They may be the benchmarks of what they do, but they are not some magically effective round.

Don't let caliber considerations get you down. A 32 is closer to a 45 than a 45 is to a 500 or any long gun round.

[Lohman446]

9MM: 124 grains @ 1050 FPS = 304 foot lbs of energy at the muzzle

40: 180 grains @ 950 FPS = 361; 155 grains @ 1050 FPS = 379

45: 200 grains @ 900 FPS = 360; 185 @ 1000 FPS = 411

357 Magnum: 125 @ 1400 FPS = 544 (Hornady's velocities - should be noted most of the other cartridges velocity numbers come from about a 4" barrel, this is an 8" barrel)

32 Auto: 60 @ 900FPS = 108

380: 90 @ 950 FPS = 180

On first glance it looks like, wow, the 45 and 357 rule. To put the numbers into perspective

30/30: 150 grains at 2200 FPS = 1612

No pistol is good. Those that act as if the 40, 45 etc are godlike are not understanding how lacking all of the commonly carried pistol calibers are.

[MANN]

30/30: 150 grains at 2200 FPS = 1612

wow I have never looked up the power of rifles. I didnt realize how much of a difference there is. ( I knew there was one, but didnt think it was that durastic)

[MANN]

The unfortunate thing is some people cannot get over the fact that a Glock 26, a XD "subcompact" and Smith and Wesson Airweight are not pocketable guns, not in normal everyday clothing at least.

I have tried shopping at 2 local gunsmiths, and I cant tell you how many people wanted to sell me a baby glock. I agree they are great guns, but veery hard to hide in jeans and a tee shirt.

/on a side note I am assuming that you are not allowed to open carry in michigan lohman? I know herer in TN we can carry it on our forehead, and they dont care (they being the law)...but none the less I dont want people to see my pistol.

[bornl33t]

wow I have never looked up the power of rifles. I didnt realize how much of a difference there is. ( I knew there was one, but didnt think it was that durastic)

Consider the tool for the job, a pistol is by design a close range defensive weapon. It's designed for short range and when the rifle is no longer an option. A rifle is by design for engagement that would be considered medium to long range. He noted muzzle velocities. If you think a pistol is going only 20-50 feet and therefore looses less kinetic energy then the rifle at 200-500 yards. The comparison is still valid I just felt like explaining why the differences are there.....

[maxama10]

Lohman touched on this, but I'm liking the look of the Sig P238 also.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PgrjCy58d0&feature=channel_page

For those of you who are able to get a ccw, do it! I'm very envious of your positions.

[Lohman446]

I have tried shopping at 2 local gunsmiths, and I cant tell you how many people wanted to sell me a baby glock. I agree they are great guns, but veery hard to hide in jeans and a tee shirt.

/on a side note I am assuming that you are not allowed to open carry in michigan lohman? I know herer in TN we can carry it on our forehead, and they dont care (they being the law)...but none the less I dont want people to see my pistol.

Open carry is questionable but technically allowed in MI. Heavily frowned on and illegal in some cities. I have a CCW so I'm covered either way. At work, I really don't care if people put two and two together and realize I'm carrying.

One also has to remember that pistols lose velocity (and energy) quicker than most rifle rounds because of bullet design. As was noted you seldom make a pistol shot in a defensive situation past 20 yards. Still, the energy in a pistol at 20 yards sucks in comparison. A 30/30 at 100 yards is still carrying about 1300 ft/lbs of energy. A 7MM out to 650 yards still carries the same.

Personally I buy my shirts a size too large and then hem them up. Good holsters (Kramer offers some, as do others) help. IWB makes jeans a t-shirt with a G26 possible. Still there are times when I want to just toss something into a pocket and go.

[Lohman446]

Here are some neat numbers from Corbon

200 grain hard cast bullet out of a 6" 357 @ 1150FPS = 587 ft lbs of pressure.

440 grain hard cast out of a 500 S+W @ 1500FPS = 2580 foot lbs of pressure

Just interesting numbers, the numbers should be close if one gets away from hard cast (which I have always been told will cause serious lead fouling over 900FPS).

[LegumeOfTerror]

I am very fond of the CZ 2075 RAMI, though they are a bit big for pocket carry.

[punkncat]

Hey bean......you still playing paintball?

[ManInBlack]

I carry a Sig Sauer P230. It's not a pocket gun, but it's plenty easy to carry concealed in the small of the back, even with just a t-shirt on. Plus, it comes in 380 auto which in my opinion is a much better round to carry than 22 or 25. The version they're making now I think is called the P232.