The Healthcare Debate, 1961

[grEnAlEins]

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[Army]

Well........there you go

[drg]

This was about medicare. So he was wrong.

[BigEvil]

The Gipper is spinning in his grave these days. Boy, we could sure use him here now.

[grEnAlEins]

This was about medicare. So he was wrong.

Not if you listen carefully. Foot in the door, and all that. I see it as quite accurate, given what is happening today.

[drg]

Not if you listen carefully. Foot in the door, and all that. I see it as quite accurate, given what is happening today.

This was 50 years ago. The time is long past for this to have possibly been proven correct. Bottom line is the fearmongering was unfounded. Medicare works just fine, and nobody is even considering getting rid of it because everyone knows it works just fine.

[busby]

http://www.fff.org/blog/jghblog2008-06-12.asp

[Lohman446]

This was 50 years ago. The time is long past for this to have possibly been proven correct. Bottom line is the fearmongering was unfounded. Medicare works just fine, and nobody is even considering getting rid of it because everyone knows it works just fine.

While I would question the accuracy of some of the assumptions I would also highly question that medicare is working just fine as well.

[Shirow]

I don't think anyone can argue that any healthcare system in this country is working 'just fine' right now - I think medicare is generally working about as well as anything else though.

[grEnAlEins]

This was 50 years ago. The time is long past for this to have possibly been proven correct. Bottom line is the fearmongering was unfounded. Medicare works just fine, and nobody is even considering getting rid of it because everyone knows it works just fine.

But there has not been a gap between these two points philosophically. There have been attempts at universal health care since then almost annually in the form of one bill or another. Most were never taken seriously or made it out of committee, but they were still attempts at expanding control. This has been a continued an consistent effort, not sporadic or a set of two isolated incidents. What this video was intended to demonstrate was that expansion of government power and control with respect to this issue was always on the to-do list of a certain segment of society.

Do you really believe it works just fine? I hope not. Try depending on it and tell me what you think (I sincerely hope this is not a part of your retirement or disability plan, for your sake). What's more, try financing it and tell me it works as promised (not that you probably do not already, assuming you pay your taxes). It has certainly not been a salient fund, this evidenced by the fact that we constantly have to increase the burden on the working people to pay for it. It costs way more than was anticipated, and serves far less good (fewer benefits for those depending on it when compared a similarly priced private program, which is why some many old people are buying supplemental plans and even replacement plans in some cases). That is not quite what I would tend to call "working fine" but I suppose this is subjective. If it is working so well, why all the buzz about medicare reform for the last several years? If it was working fine, wouldn't this be wholly unnecessary? Why was Part D needed if it was working just fine? We all know the answers the these questions are as follows: It was not; yes; Republicans were trying to capture some of the old people vote.

Examining the root of the debate is hardly fear mongering. In fact, some would argue that gathering historical and contextual information on a topic is a good thing to do when formulating an opinion regarding said topic. This is the purpose served by the above video.

[bornl33t]

Well the world is in good order if you're telling us this isn't true. It's true, just like it's true that liberals can't see the truth. Just like it's true that a good lib goes around stirring up "crap" every where he goes. This thread has been dead for over a week and you come in here and barf all over it.

Stop coming in here telling people they are wrong....because, YOUR WORNG!

[Psi]

Reagan's simple belief that the founders of this country got it right did more to make this country prosperous than any President in my life time. (10 Presidents so far). Like any man, and especially a politician, he was not perfect, but by a large margin, Reagan was right.

The cost of health care will plague us for as long as man inhabits this world because, to live one more day, most of us will pay all that we have. There will never be a simple answer and we will spend a long, long time finding the complex one. I get the feeling though that the solution will come from those who practice medicine. It will most certainly not come from the corporations that currently control the health care industry. As inept as the government is, I have a hard time imagining them wasting as much money as the drug companies, hospitals, and insurance companies currently profit. But when it come to wasting money, well, the government has no equal.

[Frizzle Fry]

Reagan's simple belief that the founders of this country got it right did more to make this country prosperous than any President in my life time. (10 Presidents so far). Like any man, and especially a politician, he was not perfect, but by a large margin, Reagan was right.

I spent my childhood with a house to live in rather than a one-room apartment purely because Regan took Carters 17% inflation rate and 18% interest rate and brought them back into the single digits. Do I support everything Regan ever said or did? No. Do I think he was right about quite a bit? Absolutely.

You'd be hardpressed to find another leader of this country in the last half century whos economic policies inspired such a turn-around... I often hear rich Boston area granola-munchers say that "Reganomics" consisted of BS and scare tactics, but regardless of whether that's true (devils advocate?) it doesn't really matter considering the effectiveness of his policies. It's fairly easy for Massachusetts uber-leftists to hate Regan... He helped people who needed it and didn't top off their trust funds.

[drg]

Do you really believe it works just fine? I hope not.

I don't just believe it works fine, I know it works fine.

Try depending on it and tell me what you think (I sincerely hope this is not a part of your retirement or disability plan, for your sake).

I depend on it and it works fine, for what it is.

I do agree that funding needs to be increased however, and would like to see a progressivizing of the Medicare tax rate.

Reagan's simple belief that the founders of this country got it right did more to make this country prosperous than any President in my life time. (10 Presidents so far). Like any man, and especially a politician, he was not perfect, but by a large margin, Reagan was right.

He did more to make the illusion of prosperity than any President in your lifetime. People on the right raise high hell about deficits and debt today, but the modern unsurmountable deficit has its roots in Reagan policy. Reagan created the insane and ultimately disastrous policy of making less and spending much, much more. Sure in the short term things might feel good, but in the long term ... you're screwed. We're seeing the fallout of that terrible philosophy today, and while we are at least staying afloat, the Reaganomic chickens have yet to fully come home to roost.

If they do ... god help us. The best we can do is hope we can slow down the disaster so they come home one at a time.

[Lohman446]

The disastor is expecting to get more than your labor is worth.

Be it from the liberal "give me" stand point or the "rich" stock market scams. Face it... if we want to provide for those on the lowest rung we have to quit sending jobs to China so that we can have 50" tvs for $500. And... no job is worth being paid 100 million a year with no entrepenurial investment.

Pay what you are getting is worth, get paid what you are doing is worth. Quit looking for something for nothing and things work. And I mean that to both sides - again $500 plasma tvs might exist but you are taking jobs away from Americans. They don't exist if made by those living at the bare standard we call acceptable. If you are going to take those jobs away you are going to have to support those who did them one way or another.

I'd think everything was working just fine too if I didn't pay for it. For instance that $250 10 minute consultation with a doctor would be working just fine if I could just kick the bill off and not worry about it. Things are not working fine.