So, seems like BS-

[teufelhunden]

between 6 and 8 years ago today, 97% of the American population was chanting all day every day things like "Never Forget" and "Let's Roll". Fast forward to today though, and it seems like a majority of Americans can't forget fast enough. What the fbomb? Is this really what our country is?

almost 68 years ago, my grandfather's generation vowed to never forget Pearl Harbor, and they never did. 16 million of that generation served, and nearly half a million were killed. My grandfather's generation never forgot. And they never will, no matter what ails them in their current advanced ages. But today? I'm 23, it seems like my peers can not forget fast enough. Today I would bet that the conversation will not be about the perpetrators of the act, but about how it was an inside job, about how Afghanistan and Iraq are wasting American lives, and about how Obama is going to leverage a similar sense of crisis to try and ram healthcare down our throats.

what else is there to say?

[BigEvil]

I echo your sentiments.

On top of them, I am disgusted that its been so long and yet not one single building has risen on ground zero. What happened to this country? What happend to "BIGGER AND BETTER"? Have our spirits been crushed?

/rant

[Shirow]

Is this really true of your peers? I'm 28 and I don't know a single person (in real life) who actually believes 9/11 is an inside job.

Sure, there's morons on the Internet and I see a bumper sticker every now and again but I don't actually KNOW anybody who believes this.

I heard a story on the radio this morning from http://www.storycorps.org about a man who lost both his sons on 9/11 - one was a detective, one was a firefighter. It was pretty powerful and really got to me more than some of the other memorials do. If you haven't checked out Story Corps, it is worthwhile, I think. I actually started my current job on 9/11 and I can distinctly remember the whole office stopping and watching it unfold on TV - most of us can still very distinctly recall it and we discuss it every year on 9/11. Today won't be any different. I'll never forget some of the things I saw that day.

About your statement than Iraq and Afghanistan are wasting American lives in regards to 9/11 - remember that the Iraq invasion was not about 9/11. I think it's important to keep that straight. There's a lot more politics involved in both those wars than 'getting the people who did 9/11' and I think you can legitimately argue that it's a travesty that so many American citizens are dying for things like preparing for democratic election in Afghanistan.

That being said.. I'm definitely not in any opposition to blowing up terrorists. Glad to hear they are still making progress on that front.

[teufelhunden]

Is this really true of your peers? I'm 28 and I don't know a single person (in real life) who actually believes 9/11 is an inside job.

Sure, there's morons on the Internet and I see a bumper sticker every now and again but I don't actually KNOW anybody who believes this.

I heard a story on the radio this morning from http://www.storycorps.org about a man who lost both his sons on 9/11 - one was a detective, one was a firefighter. It was pretty powerful and really got to me more than some of the other memorials do. If you haven't checked out Story Corps, it is worthwhile, I think. I actually started my current job on 9/11 and I can distinctly remember the whole office stopping and watching it unfold on TV - most of us can still very distinctly recall it and we discuss it every year on 9/11. Today won't be any different. I'll never forget some of the things I saw that day.

About your statement than Iraq and Afghanistan are wasting American lives in regards to 9/11 - remember that the Iraq invasion was not about 9/11. I think it's important to keep that straight. There's a lot more politics involved in both those wars than 'getting the people who did 9/11' and I think you can legitimately argue that it's a travesty that so many American citizens are dying for things like preparing for democratic election in Afghanistan.

That being said.. I'm definitely not in any opposition to blowing up terrorists. Glad to hear they are still making progress on that front.

As for it being true of my peers, obviously not many, but a few. You'll see the occasional facebook news/stalker feed item pop up about it - given that I have some sense, I don't actually associate with those people in "real" life anymore. As far as anybody believing it, hell, Obama made one of them a special adviser on green jobs/etc.

I agree about never forgetting what you saw/heard - I live in North NJ and that day I was a sophomore in HS. I had recently hurt my leg at football and that day I was going to the doctor. The doctor is on a road that on a clear day, one has an exceptionally clear view of lower Manhattan. September 11, 2001 was a clear day - except for the smoke and dust rising up from the World Trade Center. I drove past the spot where you can see - and saw one tower and lots of dust in the air. On the way out, I no towers. Not blocked by dust. Gone. Before leaving school to go to the doctor, I was in 3rd period Mass Media (tv/video production class) when I found out. I didn't leave that room until my mother came to bring me to the doctor. My best friend's father worked no more than a block away and all communication out of Manhattan was useless. I remember worrying sick about this man for hours until that night when he was able to get in touch with his family so they knew he was safe.

Could go on, I'm sure anybody from around here can.

I agree about Iraq not being related to 9/11- I wasn't trying to make that point. I think it's going to try to be related by some in media and government (in a negative fashion) - but what I was trying to get to is those who wish to sway hearts and minds have and will use this day's emotions to try and drive home their points and their ideas.

[Shirow]

Yep, it has been in the past and it will be again. Sad fact of human nature. That's one of the big failings of the public today I think (to go off on a tangent a bit) - that they don't inform themselves, they are easily swayed by pundits and they cling to the party line regardless of whether or not it makes sense.

So when something like 9/11 happens, people jump all over it as a way to sway peoples emotions.

I'm HOPING we are past this - I can't see how anyone could tie 9/11 to healthcare reform. I guess we will see. I do think it would backfire tremendously.

As far as anybody believing it, hell, Obama made one of them a special adviser on green jobs/etc

True, I forgot about that. That being said - I still don't think there are a lot of intelligent people out there with that belief - same way I don't think most people really believed there were FEMA concentration camps. Unfortunately, the minority that do are overly vocal :)

[Beemer]

between 6 and 8 years ago today, 97% of the American population was chanting all day every day things like "Never Forget" and "Let's Roll". Fast forward to today though, and it seems like a majority of Americans can't forget fast enough. What the fbomb? Is this really what our country is?

I think you titled your thread wrong. We have not forgotten. We will, "NEVER FORGET"

If that is what you think, you need to look around and see we have not.


______________________________________________

[Thordic]

I echo your sentiments.

On top of them, I am disgusted that its been so long and yet not one single building has risen on ground zero. What happened to this country? What happend to "BIGGER AND BETTER"? Have our spirits been crushed?

/rant

If you head down there lately, they are actually making a lot of progress now. I'm down there a few days a week for work, and they are getting there now.

Not sure what the delay was, although the fact the foundation is below sea level and the whole thing probably needed to be shored up must have played a role.

I think the latest estimate is the new tower will be complete by the end of 2012, and ready for occupants early in 2013. I kinda like the new design.

[teufelhunden]

I think you titled your thread wrong. We have not forgotten. We will, "NEVER FORGET"

If that is what you think, you need to look around and see we have not.

Beemer:

A majority of the voting public voted for a man who apologizes for America any chance he gets and I would wager that if he was pressed on it, he'd find a reason why 9/11 was America's fault.

People may never forget the occurrence, but do they truly remember what it means? How it changed us? That we were ATTACKED BY ENEMIES OF THIS COUNTRY WHO WISH NOTHING MORE THAN TO DESTROY US AND OUR WAY OF LIFE? THAT OUR FREEDOM MAKES THEM HATE US?

I don't think that part still resonates in enough people. That is the problem.


I look around and saw no American flags flying today other than outside of my home. Albeit, it is raining, but I somehow doubt that the Flag is inside because of the rain. Bet a good amount of people have zero clue how to treat an American flag. I see people who would rather become XXYYZZ country instead of remain the greatest nation on earth. I see people who want to change who we are to try and remain safe instead of destroying the threat.

Is that who we want to be?

[snoopay700]

between 6 and 8 years ago today, 97% of the American population was chanting all day every day things like "Never Forget" and "Let's Roll". Fast forward to today though, and it seems like a majority of Americans can't forget fast enough. What the fbomb? Is this really what our country is?

almost 68 years ago, my grandfather's generation vowed to never forget Pearl Harbor, and they never did. 16 million of that generation served, and nearly half a million were killed. My grandfather's generation never forgot. And they never will, no matter what ails them in their current advanced ages. But today? I'm 23, it seems like my peers can not forget fast enough. Today I would bet that the conversation will not be about the perpetrators of the act, but about how it was an inside job, about how Afghanistan and Iraq are wasting American lives, and about how Obama is going to leverage a similar sense of crisis to try and ram healthcare down our throats.

what else is there to say?

To be perfectly honest i got sick of the whole 9/11 thing a few years after it happened, not because i wanted to forget it, but for the exact reason Shirow brought up, how people jump on it to sway peoples emotions. It was pretty sickening and i'm actually glad that the number of people trying to spin it died down. Please don't misinterpret this as me saying i hated people remembering the day because i didn't, i thought it was a good thing that people were remembering it.

That being said, we will never forget this travesty, but at the same time it is not going to be like 2002 where it was still a fresh wound to everyone in the country. I can guarantee that people will not talk about it as much as they did then, and it probably won't come up too much in normal conversation for me today simply because life does go on. It's the same way with my grandparents, they have both died and i will never forget them, but at the same time i don't talk about them on the day they died every time simply because it was so long ago and it's not a fresh wound that needs to be talked about. Does that mean that i've forgotten them? Hell no. Same thing with 9/11, i am certain people still remember it and still remember what it means.

That being said however, hearing what you said about flags being out i honestly am surprised about that, we always put a flag out in memory of those who lost their lives that day, and it's sad that people feel they can put them out for something that happened more than 200 years ago but they can't for something that happened 8 years ago.

[Beemer]

Well around here 9 out of ten houses have a flag[mine included] or ribbon or some such all year long.

I don't think that part still resonates in enough people. That is the problem.

You might be surprised.

Who is to blame or is responsible for the insights of your generation?


______________________

[Shirow]

Yeah, I don't know where you live, but I still see many flags flying in my neighborhood, including POW/MIA flags out year round.

I think people remember and I think it means something.. that being said, I'm not sure you can expect it to resonate with, say, someone who is 19 or 20 now as much as it might with you. My (british) great grandfather would never drive a German or Japanese car his entire life because of what happened in the war. While I appreciate what he gave and what he did.. I own a Japanese car now because I don't assign blame to the current generation for something that happened a long time ago.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is - if you were 9 or 10 when 9/11 occurred.. it's probably not quite as deep an emotion for someone who was already an adult when it happened. Same way (I assume) you probably don't hate Germans while it's still something that impacts those who fought in the war.

Bear in mind (going back to your previous statement) that there are, for example, people in Afghanistan who are not hellbent on destroying America. I'd like to see something like 9/11 be an anti-terrorism, anti-violence and anti-fear day as much as a patriotic day. Let's use it to say - everyone should be united in the cause to stamp out terrorism. I think that's something all sane people can agree on - worldwide. If anyone is going to use 9/11 to incite anything, it should be to inspire people to shed their hatred.

While I'm not naive enough to think that terrorists are going to roll over because we're nice to them, I do think you can change the hearts and minds of the sane through words and actions - and there are still a lot of people out there that are very confused, but are still sane.

What really gets me is the recent news of terrorist converts from INSIDE THE UNITED STATES! You have to be severely brainwashed to think that leaving your cosy life in the USA to go fight in for terrorists in Somalia is something worth doing - but it's happened multiple times over the last few months. Some of these people just get indocrinated and I think there is a lot that can be done to help prevent this in general, but I digress.

Anyway...

The short version is, where I live, there are flags around, my peers (late 20s) all remember and still care and all hope is not lost for the world. Don't worry :)

[snoopay700]

Bear in mind (going back to your previous statement) that there are, for example, people in Afghanistan who are not hellbent on destroying America. I'd like to see something like 9/11 be an anti-terrorism, anti-violence and anti-fear day as much as a patriotic day. Let's use it to say - everyone should be united in the cause to stamp out terrorism. I think that's something all sane people can agree on - worldwide. If anyone is going to use 9/11 to incite anything, it should be to inspire people to shed their hatred.

That's a great idea and very close to my sentiments. As for what you said about convincing terrorists by being nice, i agree that the only way to stop terrorists is by force, they aren't going to change through reason.

[BigEvil]

If you head down there lately, they are actually making a lot of progress now. I'm down there a few days a week for work, and they are getting there now.

Not sure what the delay was, although the fact the foundation is below sea level and the whole thing probably needed to be shored up must have played a role.

I think the latest estimate is the new tower will be complete by the end of 2012, and ready for occupants early in 2013. I kinda like the new design.

There was a write up in the NYPost about it. Tons of red tape, and not too many banks willing to loan out the funds to Silverstein. The state of NY caused most of the delays in the begining but dragging its heals on what to put there, then again when no one liked the original plans. That alone took up five + years.

[bornl33t]

Well around here 9 out of ten houses have a flag[mine included] or ribbon or some such all year long.



You might be surprised.

Who is to blame or is responsible for the insights of your generation?

LOL my neighbor took his flag down. He puts it's up occasionally but generally no. He said that he will not fly the flag as long as Obama is in office.

[Thordic]

Well, to be honest, some of the original plans were crap.