death of the manual transmission

[Lohman446]

They will use price to force those that can't drive stick to pay a little more...kind of an excuss to charge.

For me, my car is an Aveo, manual, and the wife drives an automatic minivan. My philosophy - Automatic cars, you are just steering the car.
manual Transmission, you are driving the car.

Would you rather steer or drive?

Or because a manual transmission costs a lot less to engineer, build, and manufacture. Of course, I guess it could just be an excuse, but it could have something to do with actual cost effectiveness.

[FA22RaptorF22]

I daily drive a manual...and always will, even if I have to go to the ends of the earth to find or make another one in my old age....I will !


I cannot explain well enough how stupid it was...whoever the guy was that invented the automatic.

Here is their reasoning...from what I understand:

People: There isn't anything wrong with our transmission..but we want a new one!
Inventor: Alright, Lets make one that costs more but does the work for you.
People: Sounds good.
Inventor: It will boast worse fuel economy, break more often, be less fun, be heavier, remove the feeling of safety and control, and be much more complicated.

People: Great! We are all in!

Me: If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

[nerobro]

I feel like i need to make an argument for the auto-tragic transmission. Because it bears repeating, I own exactly one vehicle with an automatic transmission, and that's my moped. I own six other vehicles, and they all have manual transmissions. My 2006 Mazda 6 was found specifically because it had a manual transmission and a v6.

The case for the automatic transmission
Automatic transmissions have many points that make them a good choice for many applications.

First is the torque converter. This viscous coupling that provides several benifits. First, is torque multiplication. As you near the stall speed of a torque converter, the output shaft can see as much as 3x the input shaft torque. This means you can run a taller first gear, and delay the 1-2 shift.

The torque converter also provides a disconnect between the transmission input shaft and the engine. This means that the vehicle can still be in gear, and providing tractive effort, without the vehicle being in motion. An example of where this is beneficial is sitting on a hill in traffic.

This also means you're not limited by engine idle speed for minimum forward speed. This is a big advantage in traffic, and for many low speed applications.

The torque converter is also a driveline fuse. shock loads on the drive wheels are not directly transmitted to the engine.

Automatic transmissions are generally built on planetary gearsets. These have a very big advantage when you consider the strength of the gearbox. Instead of applying force to the gearbox casing, it applies force to the ring gear, and spiders. And instead of applying force to one pair of gears, it's applied to four, six, or more gear tooth surfaces.

This is not a benifit that is exclusive to automatics, as there are some special application manual transmissions that use planetary gearsets, but they are rare.

Because automatics have separately engageable gearsets you can engage more than one. This means you can combine ratios to get "other" ratios.

Automatics are also consistent. Because they have an automatically controlled, or computer controlled valve body, the transmission will behave the same no matter who's driving. This leads to consistent results, and consistent maintenance needs. And consistent fuel economy. And if you're the racing sort, consistent 1/4 mile times.

Modern automatic transmissions also have low pump demands, so are nearing manual transmissions for energy losses.

Automatics rock. I also don't like them for daily driving, or having fun while driving. ;-)

[going_home]

Me = Safe Driver !

Older Nissan pickup standard 5 speed.
I like it and have gotten used to it after not having anything but automatics for over 30 years.
But it sure was easier to talk on the phone, drink coffee, write, surf the net on me handy dandy smart phone, and drive, all at the same time.....when driving an automatic.

[Lohman446]

I daily drive a manual...and always will, even if I have to go to the ends of the earth to find or make another one in my old age....I will !


I cannot explain well enough how stupid it was...whoever the guy was that invented the automatic.

Here is their reasoning...from what I understand:

People: There isn't anything wrong with our transmission..but we want a new one!
Inventor: Alright, Lets make one that costs more but does the work for you.
People: Sounds good.
Inventor: It will boast worse fuel economy, break more often, be less fun, be heavier, remove the feeling of safety and control, and be much more complicated.

People: Great! We are all in!

Me: If it ain't broke, don't fix it!

You do realize, in your "reasoning" that the model T transmission, aside from hydraulic controls, far closer resembled todays automatic than today's manual right?

[nerobro]

forget his reasoning. the Model t transmission uses planetary gears, bands, and a clutch.. much the same as a modern automatic. Just no torque converter.

[cockerpunk]

well there simply is no doubt that an automatic CAN be faster, more effienect and better then a manual transmission. the new dual clutch electronic manuals shift in 1/10 a second, and with the right shift points, dominate manual transmissions. there is also still a lot to be gained in terms of effienecy too. the primary reason why manuals were more effienect for so long was simply that they had more gears (5 vs 3 or4), which means closer to the effienecy point. and now with CVTs, those are just better in every possible way.

the sadness comes for me not becuase autos are pretty much better in every way, it comes to me becuase the driving experience to me, includes a manual transmission. just like its more fun to play paintball with a mech or pump gun, its just more fun to drive with a manual transmission. i don't really care that a DSG can boost my 0-60 time, i want a manual to feel a part of the car when driving it.

[skife]

well there simply is no doubt that an automatic CAN be faster, more effienect and better then a manual transmission. the new dual clutch electronic manuals shift in 1/10 a second, and with the right shift points, dominate manual transmissions. there is also still a lot to be gained in terms of effienecy too. the primary reason why manuals were more effienect for so long was simply that they had more gears (5 vs 3 or4), which means closer to the effienecy point. and now with CVTs, those are just better in every possible way.

the sadness comes for me not becuase autos are pretty much better in every way, it comes to me becuase the driving experience to me, includes a manual transmission. just like its more fun to play paintball with a mech or pump gun, its just more fun to drive with a manual transmission. i don't really care that a DSG can boost my 0-60 time, i want a manual to feel a part of the car when driving it.

if i were to throw together a drag car, automatic all the way.
same thing for a mud truck.

but for anything else, no thanks.

[snoopay700]

well there simply is no doubt that an automatic CAN be faster, more effienect and better then a manual transmission. the new dual clutch electronic manuals shift in 1/10 a second, and with the right shift points, dominate manual transmissions. there is also still a lot to be gained in terms of effienecy too. the primary reason why manuals were more effienect for so long was simply that they had more gears (5 vs 3 or4), which means closer to the effienecy point. and now with CVTs, those are just better in every possible way.

the sadness comes for me not becuase autos are pretty much better in every way, it comes to me becuase the driving experience to me, includes a manual transmission. just like its more fun to play paintball with a mech or pump gun, its just more fun to drive with a manual transmission. i don't really care that a DSG can boost my 0-60 time, i want a manual to feel a part of the car when driving it.

This is exactly my opinion on manuals, and a lot of others. This is really what i think companies should pay attention to, because most consumers don't care about performance because they aren't interested in racing. Hell, i am interested in racing but that's only because it's fun and it is no longer fun when i'm only pressing two pedals, it feels like driving a go kart.

[Lohman446]

forget his reasoning. the Model t transmission uses planetary gears, bands, and a clutch.. much the same as a modern automatic. Just no torque converter.

It always amuses me when people take a "road of knowledge" when going off about how things "used to be" and are wrong about how they used to be.

[nerobro]

jeremy clarkson managed 40mpg in an automatic, v8, a8. Obviously he wasn't going very fast, but he was going highway speeds most of his trip.

think about that.......

Now the benefit of a manual versus an automatic really doesn't come from selection of ratios. though it might, with a really piss poor set of ratios, and a poor torque converter match. the big benefits come from the computer between your ears. "YOU" know the amount of power you need available to you right now. "You" know that you don't need to downshift to get up the hill. And "You" know you can jump straight from the top of first gear, to 5th gear because you tore out of that stoplight and are doing 40mph already.

the corvettes had a 3-4 lockout for a long time, because using 3rd and 4th gear shot the fuel economy to Hades. that's definite evidence for "more ratios being better" falling apart. :-)

Be careful talking about DSG as automatics. They share none of the benefits of automatics, and all of the follies of a manual. and most of the benefits of a manual. But that's another hill of beans.

CVT's still suck. (my automatic.. has a cvt...)

[Lohman446]

jeremy clarkson managed 40mpg in an automatic, v8, a8. Obviously he wasn't going very fast, but he was going highway speeds most of his trip.

think about that.......

Now the benefit of a manual versus an automatic really doesn't come from selection of ratios. though it might, with a really piss poor set of ratios, and a poor torque converter match. the big benefits come from the computer between your ears. "YOU" know the amount of power you need available to you right now. "You" know that you don't need to downshift to get up the hill. And "You" know you can jump straight from the top of first gear, to 5th gear because you tore out of that stoplight and are doing 40mph already.

the corvettes had a 3-4 lockout for a long time, because using 3rd and 4th gear shot the fuel economy to Hades. that's definite evidence for "more ratios being better" falling apart. :-)

Be careful talking about DSG as automatics. They share none of the benefits of automatics, and all of the follies of a manual. and most of the benefits of a manual. But that's another hill of beans.

CVT's still suck. (my automatic.. has a cvt...)

The problem is most of the people who think they know, really don't

[Thordic]

My GF's car has a CVT. Talk about a weird driving experience.

I use an auto, have always used an auto, and have no plans to ever get a stick. I don't need more stuff to do while driving, and living in NJ I spend enough time in traffic that a stick would just be a hassle. Most dealerships around here barely carry any sticks to begin with, it seems like 90% of cars on a lot are autos around here.

[FA22RaptorF22]

It always amuses me when people take a "road of knowledge" when going off about how things "used to be" and are wrong about how they used to be.

Whoa, easy there. I never bothered looking that far back...and I will admit that I have no knowledge of the model T.

However, even the syncroless tranny's were good in their time. They still have applications today (crashbox / dogbox).

Thinking about this with a sane mind,
Doesn't it makes sense that the best transmission is one that is 1) Reliable and 2) made with the least amount of parts?

IMHO, that screams manual transmission.

[teufelhunden]

You guys are missing the point.

It's really tough to text and drive around town with a stick. Duh.

(That said, my knee steering is impeccable )