Lohmans thought of the week? - the grasshopper and the ants

[Lohman446]

Yeh, I posted this on MCB but I figured I would throw it over here for thought and discussion

Who remembers the childhood tale of the grasshopper and the ants? I was just thinking about it as I worked today.

The story told of the hot summer days. The grasshopper lounged around the water playing his guitar as the ants toiled in the heat. The ants were putting away food for the winter, and one told the grasshopper over and over to prepare, because winter was coming. The grasshopper put it off until later, and never did. When it was freezing and the grasshopper was starving the ants showed charity and invited him in, and the grasshopper learned.

I wonder how that would work today, and I worry.

The flipping grasshopper would hold a concert, use the proceeds to buy all the ants food and shelter, and announce it as charity when he shared it with them. All the ants would aspire to be grasshoppers the next year, noone would work, and all of them would starve to death in the winter.

I laugh about it, then I think about it and look around and am slightly worried.

[snoopay700]

Yeah way too many of my friends have only aspired to be musicians with no backup plan. Some of them have found success there, but most haven't. It's really sad for me to see.

[Mayvik]

Yeh, I posted this on MCB but I figured I would throw it over here for thought and discussion

Who remembers the childhood tale of the grasshopper and the ants? I was just thinking about it as I worked today.

The story told of the hot summer days. The grasshopper lounged around the water playing his guitar as the ants toiled in the heat. The ants were putting away food for the winter, and one told the grasshopper over and over to prepare, because winter was coming. The grasshopper put it off until later, and never did. When it was freezing and the grasshopper was starving the ants showed charity and invited him in, and the grasshopper learned.

I wonder how that would work today, and I worry.

The flipping grasshopper would hold a political rally, use the proceeds to buy all the ants food and shelter, and announce it as charity when he shared it with them. All the ants would aspire to be grasshoppers the next year, noone would work, and all of them would starve to death in the winter.

I laugh about it, then I think about it and look around and am slightly worried.

Fixed!

[maniacmechanic]

either that or he ( the grasshopper ) would expect the goverment to carry him through the winter

Did you ever find anyone that " could afford " to work for you ??

[Frizzle Fry]

either that or he ( the grasshopper ) would expect the goverment to carry him through the winter

Did you ever find anyone that " could afford " to work for you ??

I live in a crap town with 3rd generation "ants" who've learned from their parents and grandparents exactly how to scam this system for more support... I see'em every day.

It's sad when one of them (rarely) applies for a job; coming in smelling of weed, dressed like they shopped in WalMarts "gangland-shooting" department, and cursing like it's going out of style. It's not like there aren't jobs here, it's just that many of these jerkoffs can make more from the government (in the short term), or aren't willing to sacrifice the tiny things (like weekday potsmoking, sitting on stoops, dressing like crap but spending money on it) to actually get one.

Welfare shouldn't be a shameful thing, but it's meant to help you get back on your feet. If it takes a few months, that's OK. If it's a year, it's time to think about getting two part time jobs or something. By year two, you're a thief IMO. Unless you've got the worst luck known to man, there's SOMETHING you could do other than steal and deal that could bring money into your household.

[drg]

many of these jerkoffs can make more from the government (in the short term),

How does this math work out?

[Frizzle Fry]

How does this math work out?

It's pretty common here... This is the best I can do in the math department...



People can make more from the government in a week than they could getting a part-time minimum wage job, which is all that is available to many given education level and transportation. Say you get $8 an hour, 30 hours a week (a fairly average part time). That's $240 before taxes, never mind transportation and time spent going to and from the job. The state and the fed take their chunks and you're left with <$200 per week, plus you've worked 30 hours which we can call 35+ if you include transportation an preparation. You need to get cleaned up, keep your work attire clean, and speak politely and properly.

The average EBT (electronic benefit transfer) recipient in Massachusetts received about $10,00 in 2008. It tends to increase yearly, but lets use that for the sake of argument. You're looking at about $192 a week in benefits, which are generally 60% "Food Benefits" to be used on unprepared food and 40% "Cash Benefits" which can be used (like a debit card) on anything, including 'Blunt Wraps' and cigarettes, and more recently scratch tickets. I've worked jobs that put me up close and personal with just how much welfare fraud is committed through the "trade" of foodstamp benefits for drugs and alcohol, even cellphones and iPods. People realize its the end of the month, and head out to the store for $70 worth of candy bars or a carton of smokes. As long as you submit one "applied to job" form per week, your bennies keep rolling in.

That's $192+ to sit on your ***, gamble, smoke, and eat on the taxpayer dime, versus <$200 to get off your butt and go to work. What many don't realize, is that after as little as 6 months at that minimum wage part time position, you start to get raises or even the opportunity to advance to full time or even a salaried position. It's all about the short-term with chronic offenders. 90% of the people on welfare use it as it should be used, to get you back on your feet, but that lazy greedy 10% just stick their hands out and grovel for more, and teach their kids to do the same.



***Summary for the TL;DR crowd***

Work: 30+ Hours - Minimum Wage = $240ish (wage) - $40ish (tax/FICA) = $200 (week)

Sit on ***: 24/7 - Taxpayer Money = $10,000 (year) / 52 (weeks) = $192 (week)

Would anyone here NOT take a 0.04% cut in pay to do NOTHING all day?



Massachusetts is especially bad, they give away a lot more than many other states, and there's virtually no "cut-off" system. Texas got it right; you get 6 months of benefits, and if you don't get a job by the end, you start working a road crew to get your "benefits". When that was instated, they trimmed about 40% of the fat. I guess more jobs "suddenly" became available?

What you get is laziness, the attitude that Welfare is "6 of 1, half a dozen of the other" compared a job, and especially the idea that theres some magical safety-net for unexpected pregnancy and drug problems, so you can live a care-free life and the government and taxpayers will pay to make all your troubles go away. A little FEAR is a good thing...

[Lohman446]

either that or he ( the grasshopper ) would expect the goverment to carry him through the winter

Did you ever find anyone that " could afford " to work for you ??

Yeh, I did. And the stupid thing is... I offered the job to two unemployed people who "could not afford to work" and the person I ultimately hired was already employed when I hired him. Kinda kills the "not compensating enough" argument I think.

[cockerpunk]

Would anyone here NOT take a 0.04% cut in pay to do NOTHING all day?

see there is the flaw in the argument. doing nothing is perhaps the worst job of all time, believe me, i know, i did nothing for a long time when looking for my engineering job. eventaully i got a job at target not becuase i needed money, but becuase i needed to do something.

did it suck - for sure. did it suck less then doing nothing all day every day - for sure.

i have always found that when you trea poeple like poeple, they don't act like the demonds you make them out to be. i would hope that part you put in about only 10% being the true offenders is true. my heart goes out to the poeple that need the help, and i'll gladly help them out, but i do dislike the freeloaders. poeple like to scapegoat this minority and use it against the general left leaning poluations out there, and it just doesn't work.

sorry guys, we have bigger problems in this nation then those that take advantage of welfare.

[Frizzle Fry]

see there is the flaw in the argument. doing nothing is perhaps the worst job of all time, believe me, i know, i did nothing for a long time when looking for my engineering job. eventaully i got a job at target not becuase i needed money, but becuase i needed to do something.

did it suck - for sure. did it suck less then doing nothing all day every day - for sure.

Doing nothing all day sucks if you're used to doing something all day, and there aren't 40+ other people your age doing the exact same thing (nothing) all day with you. If it's all you've ever done, however... I personally prefer working, though my "0.04% cut" would put me at a significantly higher pay than $200 a week, so it would better suit my lifestyle.


There's an entire community of 20-26 year olds in the area where I work who look and act like their 17, take money from the government, wander around town all day smoking weed and spending their welfare benefits on potato chips, candy bars, cigarettes and blunt wraps. EVERY DAY. For at least 3 years running (that I know of). These guys sell drugs for a little while, when stuff gets too tight they try to get jobs and ***** about it until they get canned, but for the most part they hang around and cause trouble. In a town of about 10,000 there are probably 100 of these guys. It's not exactly an epidemic, but their parents do just about the same (more cigarettes and lottery tickets) with their own welfare benefits. There's a Stop 'N Shop no more than a 1/4 mile from the center of town... the convenience store costs twice as much but is only 1/8 of a mile so they all go there. The kicker? Most have cars, including Mustangs, Caddies, and Mercedes.


Again, this isn't even MOST of the system, but at least locally it's a significant problem... Massachusetts is so soft on these people that they easily (and I mean easily) manage to cook the books and play games, some ending up with double-benefits or four Section-8 housing units for a family of three, one of whom is under 10 years of age. It eats up benefits that could legitimately help people who intend to use the system to get back on their feet, and it violates the contract (yes, contract) that recipients have made with the government, but they usually aren't punished for the violation. With the market the way it is, there are people who could really use support who are having trouble getting it, and there's a lot of talk about changes (expensive changes) being made to the welfare system soon.


I've known MANY people who were on Massachusetts EBT welfare system, both as an adult and when I was growing up. There's no shame in accepting benefits, but they're there to help you get on your feet, not to support you permanently! Social programs are about STANDARD OF LIVING, not QUALITY OF LIFE. At a certain point people have to be held responsible for their actions and the consequences of those actions. In the same sense that a civilized society is expected to support members less fortunate, all members are expected to act in a civilized manner. That kind of welfare abuse is no different than physically stealing, embezzling, or grifting, all things that are not accepted in our societe but for some reason these people are practically unpunishable..