Fingerprint Drug Test

[DevilMan]

What about employees of such businesses? Should they have the right to a smoke free environment or should they just get another job? Do you feel this should apply to all businesses?

If it's a place that is allowed to have smokers and you don't like it then you have the right to look for other jobs. NO ONE FORCES YOU TO TAKE A JOB. ANY Business that is privately owned and operated should be allowed to make the choices for this based on what they wish to do. Allow smoking, disallow it. It should NOT be a government function.

Ohio passed non-smoking laws here a few years ago and I love it. I can now go to restaurants and not be faced with the possibility of having to either sit near a smoker or smell the stale smoke smell while eating. Smoking/non-smoking sections within the same building are a joke. Unless the areas are physically sealed off from one another with seperate HVAC systems, you get cross over. It's amazing how much difference there is. Almost makes you forget until you go across the state line into someplace like Indiana where they don't have such laws and you walk into a place for dinner that smells like the bottom of an ash tray.

I'm well aware of what both sides of the coin looks like. And I'm aware of what the places smell like as well and I know that the split system is not cool and doesn't really work worth a damn. But it should be the business owners choice.

I also know a couple of restaurant owners that were thrilled to have such legislation passed so they could eliminate smoking from their establishments without the risk of backlash from the public. To a certain degree, it gave them a way to play the victim when in reality they hated to have a smoking section in their restaurant.

Yup... I know this as well. But should it be the gov's ruling?

If state run rehab centers are anything like the counseling that is provided for DUI cases, it's a joke at best.

Who said anything about state run? And yes it's ALL a joke anymore. Your idea of freedom and liberty is a joke as well. If the system was perfect everything would be fine right?? But it's not. But at what point do you think that it's NOT the gov's place to decide for you?

If it's a private business it should be their choice.

So tell me this. If a company has a dress code that says you must wear suspenders while at work. And you hate to wear suspenders are you going to take the job? Or are you going to look elsewhere?

So you go to a place that smells like an ashtray... what makes you think that the people that work there aren't smokers? If enough people don't smoke and want to bring it to the owners attention then it should be the owners choice. Do you know how much a pack of smokes costs?

What if the place was a SMOKE ONLY place. Meaning you could only work there and come there if you WERE a smoker? But now the gov doesn't allow that does it? What if that same place sold smokes as well as dinner? hmmmm... I bet it'd more than make up for the loss of patrons that are non smokers.

Yes it allowed some owners to make it smoke free without backlash... it also allowed them to lose business from people that do smoke.

I think all of you are failing to understand one thing... that's the freedom for someone to choose to live their life the way they want without restrictions from others AS LONG AS their life doesn't adversely affect others.

What about Hooters? Can you tell me why anyone would work there if they weren't alright with the attire that they would be required to wear as a work uniform? hmmmmm..... I bet not a one of you here complain about that place.

It's amazing how everything looks when the shoe is on the other foot.

Tell me this... is there ANYTHING that you can do on a motorcycle that you can't do in a car on the roads today? Is there ANY reason for street motorcycles to exist? ANY at all? Name one.

Why not just outlaw them?

What about black or white cars? Black/dark cars are known to have a larger "carbon footprint" than more muted colors. They "get dirty" quicker which means you wash them more often, which means more water waste. They get hot from the sun more so you run the AC when you get in your car for longer to cool it off, which burns more fuel. So should black/dark colored vehicles be banned? Name one reason that your car has to be black. Just one.

What about white cars that "get dirty" quicker and so people wash them more often? So there is more water wasted. Why not make all cars tan/brown in color? Would that not be a better system?

I guess if that happens we could truly become a giant turd nation.

So at point do you figure that you'll stand up for your freedom/right to live your life?

DM

[OPBN]

So at point do you figure that you'll stand up for your freedom/right to live your life?

Other than not being legally allowed to spark up if the mood arises, I have yet to find any restrictions on my freedoms and/or rights to live my life. I find the saber rattling about protecting our freedoms silly, when honestly I don't see any infringement on these rights by the government. It irritates the hell out of me when people act like you are a sheep if you aren't "fightin da man" all the time. Really, I have nothing to fight about. Trust me, when I feel my rights are being infringed upon, I'll take action.

As for the rest of your post, I feel you're wrong. I am totally happy with the current non-smoking bans in privately owned businesses. Granted, it doesn't affect me since I work from home, but I do remember working at a company that allowed smoking in the building and it was miserable. I did exercise my rights and quit the job. Shortly after, smoking bans were put in place. By your reasoning, private businesses shouldnt have to follow any types of rules? Minimum wage requirments? Minimum age requirments? Safety regs? How about food safety? FDA? Health inspections? Maybe we should allow business owners to discriminate against women and blacks again. I mean it is their private businesses right?

As for dress codes, many companies have dress codes in place. I agree, if you don't want to wear a suit and tie, don't take the job. But having to turn down a job because you don't want to have to sit in a cubicle 5 feet away from a chain smoker is a totally different story. You are comparing apples and oranges.

Not sure where the Hooters thing really comes into place, but I haven't been to a Hooters in probably 20 years. Not because I object or anything, but just really not my thing. Still not sure what it has to do with anything or the motorcycle comment for that matter. I don't think anyone was speaking in favor of banning motorcycles or tarts in short shorts serving mediocre food.

However, you are contradicting yourself regarding freedoms. You keep saying people should be able to live their lives without affecting others, and smoking in a public restaurant does exactly that. Like it or not, a restaurant is a public place.

[DevilMan]

However, you are contradicting yourself regarding freedoms. You keep saying people should be able to live their lives without affecting others, and smoking in a public restaurant does exactly that. Like it or not, a restaurant is a public place.

WRONG. A restaurant is a PRIVATE place that allows PUBLIC. You ever see those signs that say, "We reserve the right to refuse service to ANYONE" hmmmm.... I don't think a courthouse can put up such a sign. I bet you'll never see it at the post office.

A PRIVATELY owned and operated business is a PRIVATE entity, that allows the public to come in and utilize their assets. How that company decides to do it should be THEIR choice. Not the gov's.

DM

[OPBN]

WRONG. A restaurant is a PRIVATE place that allows PUBLIC. You ever see those signs that say, "We reserve the right to refuse service to ANYONE" hmmmm.... I don't think a courthouse can put up such a sign. I bet you'll never see it at the post office.

A PRIVATELY owned and operated business is a PRIVATE entity, that allows the public to come in and utilize their assets. How that company decides to do it should be THEIR choice. Not the gov's.

DM

But if smoking, like eating meat that hasnt been refrigerated prior to serving, is considered a health issue, it can and should be regulated. It has been determined that smoking and second hand smoke is detrimental to peoples health, therefore in a public access restaurant, it is prohibited. BTW, if I remember correctly, private clubs can and do allow smoking. If it's that big of a deal to smoke, smokers have the right to go there and join.

So out of curiosity, other than blowing off steam on an internet forum, what are you doing to help protect our rights that you feel are so important? It seems to be a very big issue for you, obviously you must be very involved in trying to get such legislation overturned.... or are you a sheep like the rest of us?

Bahhh.

[Dover]

Florida is the first State that will require drug testing when applying for welfare (effective July 1st)! Some people are crying this is unconstitutional? It's OK to drug test the people who work for their money, but not those who don't ?

how about mandatory breathalyzers installed into motor vehicles to prevent drinking and driving...

[DevilMan]

I do think that random drug testing should be mandatory for welfare and social services.

I do not think that getting tested without your consent is or should be legal.

What do I do. I try to vote for what I can, I try to "enlighten" or explain logically the different sides of each facet of a subject as I understand it. I'm more than happy to learn more.

Man, I've never so much as ever puffed on even a cigarette... but I think that if you want to you should be allowed to. If you wanna shoot yourself in the head... go for it... just don't get the blood on someone else or their belongings.

I do NOT approve of someone burning the stars and stripes. But I'll not say they can't do it. I'll also reserve my right to not put their ass out when it catches on fire.

Do you not think that by a place serving bad food, or having it dirty that in time it will die off? Do you really think that the FDA and all of the other things really help? Now if you go somewhere and get sick from the food and it's found to be because of their service then you have something to complain about and to hold the place accountable. You can do that by complaining to them, and my avoiding the place and passing it on to people you talk to.

That will leave it up to them as to whether or not someone wants to go to eat there...

You know what I also find very funny.

How long have humans and animals been around? How long as the FDA, OSHA, and all the other "We're here to protect YOU!!!" organizations been around? hmmmmm.... You ever think about the fact that we GOT HERE WITHOUT THEM???? Maybe just maybe... they aren't really needed.

DM

[Dover]

Microsoft Explorer 7 SUCKS, i just "upgraded" because of "updates" and it SUCKS SO BAD

[Ando]

Florida is the first State that will require drug testing when applying for welfare (effective July 1st)! Some people are crying this is unconstitutional? It's OK to drug test the people who work for their money, but not those who don't ?

how about mandatory breathalyzers installed into motor vehicles to prevent drinking and driving...

I hope ever state does it. I for one don't want to support some junky pot-head who would rather get high then use the money for what it's meant for, their family.

...And Dover, they have those in vehicles already. Mandatory for those habitual offenders.

[DevilMan]

...And Dover, they have those in vehicles already. Mandatory for those habitual offenders.

Why not just put it in every car then? Why not put that fingerprint drug tester in so that when you touch the wheel it knows whether or not you should be driving?

Is Driving Under the Influence aka Drunk Driving a violation in EVERY state in the country? YES. So why does the gov not put that system in EVERY car?

hmmmm... because it could be easily by passed and worked around and because of the cost... oh yeah... cost.. because it's much cheaper to prosecute and arrest and have deaths caused on a daily basis because of it. Should it be put in? I think so. Why? Because it's a private vehicle. It's your car. BUT, you are not going to be driving it ONLY on your property (more than likely)

DM

[Ando]

DM, who the hell put a quarter in you? Last thing you want to do is argue with me brother.

Hell, this place is full of bleeding heart Libs!!!

[OPBN]

I do think that random drug testing should be mandatory for welfare and social services.
I do not think that getting tested without your consent is or should be legal.

As do I.

What do I do. I try to vote for what I can, I try to "enlighten" or explain logically the different sides of each facet of a subject as I understand it. I'm more than happy to learn more.

In other words, nothing except saber rattle on the internet. That's what gets me about people that try to act like they are enlightening all of us that are in the dark getting our liberties trampled and in reality do absolutely nothing.

Man, I've never so much as ever puffed on even a cigarette... but I think that if you want to you should be allowed to. If you wanna shoot yourself in the head... go for it... just don't get the blood on someone else or their belongings.

or say the smoke from their cigarette on my food...? Why are their rights to smoke more important than my rights to not inhale their second hand smoke? So if a restauranteur decides to just have people crap in the middle of the floor instead of go into the restrooms, that should be ok?

I do NOT approve of someone burning the stars and stripes. But I'll not say they can't do it. I'll also reserve my right to not put their ass out when it catches on fire.

Again, agreed. Might even endorse squirting them with lighter fluid and bringing some marshmallows and sticks.

Do you not think that by a place serving bad food, or having it dirty that in time it will die off? Do you really think that the FDA and all of the other things really help? Now if you go somewhere and get sick from the food and it's found to be because of their service then you have something to complain about and to hold the place accountable. You can do that by complaining to them, and my avoiding the place and passing it on to people you talk to.
That will leave it up to them as to whether or not someone wants to go to eat there...

So rather than having regulations in place you really feel we should just leave it up to the owners? Really? Interesting. How many people should be allowed to get sick before any action is taken, or should it just be ignored?

You know what I also find very funny.

How long have humans and animals been around? How long as the FDA, OSHA, and all the other "We're here to protect YOU!!!" organizations been around? hmmmmm.... You ever think about the fact that we GOT HERE WITHOUT THEM???? Maybe just maybe... they aren't really needed.

DM

You do realize that the life expectancy of people has gone up considerably over the past 100 or so years right? Actually, it has gone up considerably over the past several hundred years, but we are just talking about since their were government regulations and organizations to help workers. Accidents in the workplace have drastically gone down as have workplace health related issues. While some safety regulations are silly at best, overall, I would rather see them in place than work somewhere without them. Oddly enough, these regulations etc actually protect YOU the worker, not the private company. Rather than leaving it up to the business owner who's interest in many cases is solely to turn a profit, they are meant to insure the safety of the worker. These regulations were put in place to keep greedy business owners from cutting corners and creating dangerous work conditions for workers. You can argue that people can simply quit such jobs, but some people don't have that option. If you have the choice of watching your family starve to death or crawl into a mineshaft and breath deadly fumes and black dust for the next 15 years, what would you choose? Government regulations in the workplace help clean such jobs up so that people don't have to make the decision of whether to live or die simply to put food on the table.

[DevilMan]

Funny that you bring up coal mining... my grandfather was one of the pioneers of some of the things they do in the mines these days.... Lived in it his whole life...

DM

[SCpoloRicker]

Microsoft Explorer 7 SUCKS, i just "upgraded" because of "updates" and it SUCKS SO BAD

Preserving this for teh lulz!

Also: I know I'm old-fashioned on this, but the lack of decorum in the usage of language is quite disheartening. Call me crazy, but a typo describing one's daily routine as:

I brun the strongest weed 24/7 and have for years. None of the BS the government says is true about weed. Do I seem lazy or stupid I love the stuff and laugh at people who think as you do because they have no real information on this subject, just what they learned in DARE class in grade school.

It just sort of jumps out at me. See also IM TALKIN BOUT FREEDOM!!1

/my lawn, get off it; etc.

[Loguzzzzzz]

[DevilMan]

Also if you notice the one thing I say is that you should have the right to do what you want AS LONG AS IT DOES NOT AFFECT OTHERS.

So which part of this is hard to understand?

A private business is private and should not be made to follow each and every regulation that someone thinks is new and improved.

Think of it this way....

If a business has a catwalk, that is missing a section that ANYONE who walks normally is going to fall through is it a safety hazard? YES

Now... does that mean that someone who is not smoking will fall through it, but someone smoking won't?

That is not a choice about whether or not someone WANTS to do something. It's about a work place safety hazard. Is there a fine for the person who goes up and puts a board down over and crosses it and picks the board up? Was it unsafe? Maybe. Did that person choose to do so? YES. What if it's taped off, blocked off, marked off, chained off and yet a person climbs over all of that and walks and falls down the hole? Is it the company's fault? NO. Should the person be able to sue or prosecute the company? NO. It's the persons fault plain and simple.

See... these are differences that you all seem to try and tie together... I'm not talking about things that no matter what are going to be painful for anyone... is dropping a grand piano out of the 4th floor window for someone to catch smart? or legal? I bet no matter who you are it's not going to go well. IF you are the person on the bottom that thinks they can catch it, should you be stopped from making that choice?

DM