New Cash Law

[OPBN]

and what logic is used to justify this? one could easily claim no need to to have sales tax on a couple million dollars worth of CNC equipment, or a couple million dollars worth of nickel for plating ... and yet they are taxed. maybe im just a lowly process engineer, but EVERYTHING is used in the manfuacuting process. thats just a giant loophole right there.

Difference is direct resale. If you are buying the CNC equipment and reselling it as part of your business, it is in fact non-taxed. I buy millions of dollars worth of parts every year and resell them tax free, but only to companies that use those parts as a component of something they are in turn selling to someone else or they are reselling the components to someone else.

[cockerpunk]

Difference is direct resale. If you are buying the CNC equipment and reselling it as part of your business, it is in fact non-taxed. I buy millions of dollars worth of parts every year and resell them tax free, but only to companies that use those parts as a component of something they are in turn selling to someone else or they are reselling the components to someone else.

right, so it is a loophole, that merely promots middle-manning and punishes the end user with the tax burden of the entire operation.

and poeple wonder why we don't make anything here anymore .... making things is taxed at a higher rate then just trading things around.

/2/3rds of the human race are middle men, they don't take kindly to being cut out of the deal.
//we are the 33% who actually produce things
///when and where should we occupy?

[OPBN]

right, so it is a loophole, that merely promots middle-manning and punishes the end user with the tax burden of the entire operation.

and poeple wonder why we don't make anything here anymore .... making things is taxed at a higher rate then just trading things around.

/2/3rds of the human race are middle men, they don't take kindly to being cut out of the deal.
//we are the 33% who actually produce things
///when and where should we occupy?

Really? The only person being taxed is the person end/user that buys the parts for use. If we taxed every transaction from start to finish, it would put us at even more of a disadvantage to overseas manufacturers. And taxes are really the reason we are not manufacturing as much anymore, it's guys screwing bolts onto nuts all day long thinking that job is worth $150k/year.

[cockerpunk]

Really? The only person being taxed is the person end/user that buys the parts for use. If we taxed every transaction from start to finish, it would put us at even more of a disadvantage to overseas manufacturers. And taxes are really the reason we are not manufacturing as much anymore, it's guys screwing bolts onto nuts all day long thinking that job is worth $150k/year.

taxes are a huge reason we don't make anythign here in the USA anymore.

anyone who makes an income, pays between 15-35% on that income. you make income by making things.

anyone who invests pays 15% taxes. here you make you rmoney being another middle man, and do not actually produce anything.

ergo, poeple are going to invest rather then make income. becuase functionally for the person making the money, its the same thing, but from the governments perspective, they are for some reason two different things (mostly so the rich can get richer).



my point is that we shouldn't add sales tax as it sits to everything, but lower sales tax, and apply it to everything. that way your tax code matches with reality. fair tax, flat sales tax. no one dodging it. production vs manipulation taxed equally.

[OPBN]

taxes are a huge reason we don't make anythign here in the USA anymore.

anyone who makes an income, pays between 15-35% on that income. you make income by making things.

anyone who invests pays 15% taxes. here you make you rmoney being another middle man, and do not actually produce anything.

ergo, poeple are going to invest rather then make income. becuase functionally for the person making the money, its the same thing, but from the governments perspective, they are for some reason two different things (mostly so the rich can get richer).



my point is that we shouldn't add sales tax as it sits to everything, but lower sales tax, and apply it to everything. that way your tax code matches with reality. fair tax, flat sales tax. no one dodging it. production vs manipulation taxed equally.

You do realize that in the end the consumer pays for it right? If you add taxes throughout the process, all it will do it raise the price of the finished goods. I personally could care less if they taxed the products that I sell because I would just add it to my cost and mark up off of it simliliarly how I do for shipping costs. However, since most of the parts that I buy, I ship oveseas, it would definitely make me less competitive if I am having to absorb the costs of taxes that I had to pay on the goods that I purchased when someone else from another coutry isnt having to do so. Also, you do realize we are talking about state sales tax right? The federal government can't tell states what rate to charge and it varies from state to state which is probably one of the resons it is done the way it is. I can't imagine having to decide what my cost is on something if I am having to keep track of each states sales tax rate.

[cockerpunk]

You do realize that in the end the consumer pays for it right? If you add taxes throughout the process, all it will do it raise the price of the finished goods. I personally could care less if they taxed the products that I sell because I would just add it to my cost and mark up off of it simliliarly how I do for shipping costs. However, since most of the parts that I buy, I ship oveseas, it would definitely make me less competitive if I am having to absorb the costs of taxes that I had to pay on the goods that I purchased when someone else from another coutry isnt having to do so. Also, you do realize we are talking about state sales tax right? The federal government can't tell states what rate to charge and it varies from state to state which is probably one of the resons it is done the way it is. I can't imagine having to decide what my cost is on something if I am having to keep track of each states sales tax rate.

yup, all taxes are in the end paid the consumer, however, the is a difference between the macro level comment "all taxes are paid by consumers" and micro-level decisions like "i have 10 million dollars, and i want to make the most money i can, what should i do?" the goal being to tax fairly, and to tax in such a way to to promode an overal systemic good (like keeping jobs in the USA, and making things in the USA). the current tax code deincentivizes both.

i realise sales taxes are state based, and not arguing for a federal mandate in the least.

[OPBN]

Sales and income tax are two totally different subjects. We were discussing sales tax and you felt it was unfair. How is the current system unfair as either way, the consumer pays the brunt of the tax on the item. Not having manufacturers and resellers paying tax as product changes hands each way in the process is a much simpler system and makes total sense. Your argument initially was that the system is unfair. How so? All charging taxes along the way would do it complicate the system and the end consumer still pays the tab, but now we have a mountain of tax bills to add to the equation which would cause more expense as we would have to hire more people to monitor those bills. And since this is at the state level, each state would have to have their own group. Seems to me the system in place is makes total sense.

[cockerpunk]

Sales and income tax are two totally different subjects. We were discussing sales tax and you felt it was unfair. How is the current system unfair as either way, the consumer pays the brunt of the tax on the item. Not having manufacturers and resellers paying tax as product changes hands each way in the process is a much simpler system and makes total sense. Your argument initially was that the system is unfair. How so? All charging taxes along the way would do it complicate the system and the end consumer still pays the tab, but now we have a mountain of tax bills to add to the equation which would cause more expense as we would have to hire more people to monitor those bills. And since this is at the state level, each state would have to have their own group. Seems to me the system in place is makes total sense.

becuase then merely trading goods is tax free. producing something, or consuming something is taxed, but if you just mail it around the country (making money on each deal) then you don't pay any tax? thats rediculous. of course your going to have a nation of middle-men if building things is taxed higher then merely trading things. of course your going to have nation that doesn't build anything. why would you build anything?

if you sell something new, there should be sales tax on it. just like if you make income, there should be income taxed on it.

why is this confusing?

[OPBN]

becuase then merely trading goods is tax free. producing something, or consuming something is taxed, but if you just mail it around the country (making money on each deal) then you don't pay any tax? thats rediculous. of course your going to have a nation of middle-men if building things is taxed higher then merely trading things. of course your going to have nation that doesn't build anything. why would you build anything?

if you sell something new, there should be sales tax on it. just like if you make income, there should be income taxed on it.

why is this confusing?

You're right, it's not confusing.

[leloup]

taxes are a huge reason we don't make anythign here in the USA anymore.

anyone who makes an income, pays between 15-35% on that income. you make income by making things.

anyone who invests pays 15% taxes. here you make you rmoney being another middle man, and do not actually produce anything.

ergo, poeple are going to invest rather then make income. becuase functionally for the person making the money, its the same thing, but from the governments perspective, they are for some reason two different things (mostly so the rich can get richer).



my point is that we shouldn't add sales tax as it sits to everything, but lower sales tax, and apply it to everything. that way your tax code matches with reality. fair tax, flat sales tax. no one dodging it. production vs manipulation taxed equally.

Taxes are part, but not even close to the whole. Employee wages are the number one expense for a business (on average) and are crazy expensive in the US. Also, not everyone who makes money legally has to pay 15%+. If you make millions, tax levels can dip closer to 10%.
With investing, you don't necessarily have to pay taxes either. I invest $5k a year in stock and mutual funds and don't pay a dime. When I sell said stock and mutual funds, guess what? I won't legally have to pay a dime. What you may be referring to is only when you sell, not when you buy, do you pay taxes, but again, not in all circumstances.

Lastly, not all of us have to pay sales tax. We in the great state of Oregon don't pay. Also, in Washington, they don't have income tax. I do agree with you CP that a flat sales tax might make things more equal.